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[–]send_nasty_stuff 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

I'm discussing this with my fellow mods now. You did go down the pyramid it's not like you did nothing wrong and you have had a warning before.

What I don't understand is why it's so important for you to be included in conversations with people you don't seem to respect or agree with on anything? I wasn't offended when I was banned from latestagecapitalism on reddit. I didn't feel entitled to be in that sub even though there were several topics I wanted to talk to them about.

If you can acknowledge that you went down the pyramid with the indian user we can work with you on shortening or lifting your ban. The mod who banned you has agreed to some flexibility on this. I assume saidit admin would agree with me here considering it's their pyramid you're breaking not ours.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I appreciate this response. My answers:

You did go down the pyramid it's not like you did nothing wrong and you have had a warning before.

I remember the warning, though I see my comments as much more informative - and thus not so far down the pyramid - than the comments by others. For example, my point to the Indian user was to point out - as clearly as I could - that he too (by virtue of his agreement with those who think mixed race people are dumber than whites) could be a victim of others who don't like mixed-race or non-white people. I am not sure if there is a better, more informative way of pointing this out. The comment was about the username, not anything personal. (I might note that mods on Saidit are never bothered when I get spammed with insults, but that's a different discussion.)

What I don't understand is why it's so important for you to be included in conversations with people you don't seem to respect or agree with on anything?

I have to explain this periodically to Saiditors: I joined Saidit months ago in order to learn about right-wing and alt right points of view, to read the stuff you read, to learn about the commonly used websites here, to see why we all seem to be concerned about the 99% but have very different ideas on how to engage in political solutions, and to see which political solutions anyone would want to discuss (and I've had no responses that include actionable options or voting preferences, or even ideas about revolutions). Just as Saiditors should try to understand what centrists and the left are reading, I should try to understand what Saiditors are reading.

Why do I argue with Saiditors? I try not to make a habit of this, but once an argument starts, I feel it's responsible and respectful to respond to the arguments of others. Also, I want to know more about the reasons for some of the posts. Another reason I respond is because I am sometimes procrastinating with work, while also annoyed with one of the posts, and want to offer a counter-argument.

I wasn't offended when I was banned from latestagecapitalism on reddit.

I am certainly not offended that I am banned from DAR. Of all places to be banned from, it's certainly OK with me to be banned from DAR.

I didn't feel entitled to be in that sub even though there were several topics I wanted to talk to them about.

This is how I feel about DAR. I wanted an opportunity to ask DAR about their views on who to elect in the next election, and how those people can help deliver alt right political solutions. I am genuinely curious about what DAR think of actionable political opportunities.

If you can acknowledge that you went down the pyramid with the indian user we can work with you on shorting or lifting your ban.

I think my first response to him was lower on the pyramid than it should have been, and for reasons noted above, I wanted to make an explicit point about racist approaches. Additional responses were, I had thought, genuine approaches to debates, and not as low on the pyramid as the first response.

Thank you very much for responding.

At some point, DAR will likely be happy to be rid of me, but for what it's worth, I would think it important for Debate Alt Right to welcome debates with the alt right, warts and all. For this reason DAR should be the most free speech sub at Saidit, with fewer rules, not the most rules (and certainly not vague rules about 'authority' and saying someone is wrong). And as we know about Saidit, I am but one of many contrarians here who like to argue and debate. In my view, this is the best part of Saidit, as would be DAR if they could stomach debates.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

At some point, DAR will likely be happy to be rid of me

We're not actively trying to get rid of you if that's what you're implying. We enjoy spirited debate in good faith. We are naturalists that accept the laws of antifragility. If our arguments can't hold up to debate they need modified or thrown out. Which is why I'm engaging with you now. To be honest if this was reddit we wouldn't have even considered keeping you because we'd have plenty of moderates and leftists to debate. Saidit though is a small community and we are trying to be mindful of the admins mandate to allow counter points. From our point of view though there's a pretty clear line between counterpoints and trolling or shilling.

but for what it's worth, I would think it important for Debate Alt Right to welcome debates with the alt right, warts and all. For this reason DAR should be the most free speech sub at Saidit,

I agree but again I hope that you and everyone reading are aware (as I've stated before) that DAR and all alt right spaces on the internet have a target on their back. Many people want to take us down any way possible so we are constantly on guard. Personally I'm all for free speech 'platforms' but sub sections of those platforms need moderated if productive exchange of ideas is to occur.

I think my first response to him was lower on the pyramid than it should have been

We appreciate your acknowledgment. Since the other user was not banned your ban is lifted. Just going down the pyramid is not grounds for a permanent ban. This was agreed upon by the DAR mod team with nobody in disagreement.

I wanted to make an explicit point about racist approaches.

That's how your comment came off to me but I can see how others might have viewed it differently. Even though the members of DAR are race realists we really don't see a need for racial insults. It's not conducive to productive conversations. We actually had an automod that removed racial slurs on reddit. In fact our sub probably policed 'racism' more than other subs on reddit and we were still banned. What does that tell you?

If you don't mind me making a suggestion. I think you need to make some exploratory posts on DAR simplying asking us for positions and background. Structure your questions out as neutrally as you can. Many of our users don't mind laying things out in detail. There are some very sharp well read users on DAR that you could learn from. Some of our posters have been here for all 4 years and have amassed a lot of experience unwinding disinformation and propaganda. You don't have to agree with any of them but having a framework of our real beliefs, passions, and historiography might mitigate these tense exchanges in the future. If possible don't let blunt or provocative replies get the best of you.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

But that's the problem isn't it: when has u/socks EVER demonstrated even an inkling of good faith? He can quote the most contrived Wikipedia page and call you paranoid if you disagree.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

^

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You can read my post history, or not. Perhaps too many multisyllabic words for you. If you can't support your claims, might as well avoid arguing with adults.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Ah yes. More ill faith: "I never did this. Prove me wrong, here are 10 trillion pages of evidence. Call me when you find it." knowing full well I'm not dumb enough to sift through your endless supply of trolling and inanities in order to find one particular turd.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And now - victim shaming. You attacked me. So you do favor tellling lies, and when told that they are lies, and were to find evidence, you note that you'd prefer not to. You're seill wrong, however, and seem to have no moral compass.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Oy vey

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You can't even know what a compass is or where it should point. If you wanna discuss this one: define compass.