you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]BoniceMarquiFace 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

The daily astroturf person or people are - seems to me - using QBoogaloo Oath Keeper Nazi extremists language in their posts (eg. 8/8 upvotes& topics), even though - as /u/magnora7 has noted - they are also mainly trying to kill engagement at Saidit, or at the very least they're pushing an '88 Precepts' agenda, for whatever reason.

Shills are shills, the ideology is less relevant

The problem however is that there are virtually no right wing groups (or even extremist/fringes) with the organizational prowess to engage in shill efforts with the intent to disrupt a website, outside of some (fringe) forums that might target a site

So if there's a lack of heavily populated fringe forums explicitly targeting a site, but the posters give over-the-top identifier labels, it's safe to assume the posters are assuming a false identity

Blaming that activity on "hurr durr the right wing extremist crowd" is as stupid as blaming "Russian bots" infiltrating the left

https://archive.is/aD361

As political censorship escalates on social media, American spy agencies accuse Russia of running a fake left-wing news website called PeaceData. But there is no evidence for the FBI’s claims, and many questions remain unanswered.

By Ben Norton

...At the center of the intrigue is a suspicious website called PeaceData. The FBI and a Pentagon-backed private intelligence firm called Graphika claim the page is a Russian government vehicle for pushing disinformation in English, but there is no tangible evidence to support the claim — only a statement posted in comically broken English that sounds much more like someone trying to impersonate a Russian than sophisticated Kremlin operatives.

PeaceData was completely unknown before it was identified by the FBI as the heart of a supposed Russian disinformation scheme. The website had next to no following, with just 197 likes on Facebook, and negligible web traffic.

PeaceData published articles from a left-wing perspective, the majority of which criticized US military interventions and Western imperialism. Most of these posts were reprinted without permission from real, independent progressive news outlets.

Every aspect of PeaceData’s existence and online behavior appears suspicious. The only third party that had access to the website’s social media data is a Pentagon contractor called Graphika. This US government-backed tech firm prepared a lengthy report on PeaceData, but offered absolutely no proof that Moscow was behind it.

Another former PeaceData writer who was given a large platform in The Guardian previously interned for conservative Democrat Congressman Don Beyer, wrote anti-Russian articles, and pushes Russiagate narratives on social media.

Why would dubious and apparently compromised figures like these have leapt at the opportunity to write for an unknown website whose editorial line was so clearly at odds with their stated views? And how did that previously unknown online operation find these obscure figures?

I'd bet money that this brigading of 'undesirables' (me referring to people posting trash to repel others) is a pretext by some shill group trying to get u/magnora to ask for help with "cracking down on trolls"

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

I (and I think, M7) would agree with the last sentence, and I appreciate the detailed answer, but as you can probably guess, I am referring specifically to alt-right individuals who support the '88 Precepts' and are trying to influence various websites in order to push their agendas. It's not "hurr durr" guesswork. Anyone on Saidit has already seen plenty of it, but here are some lists of the resources used by these alt-right groups to spread disinformation and propaganda:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alt-right+social+media+gab+parler+8chan&t=h_&ia=web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news_websites_in_the_United_States

[–]JasonCarswell 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (16 children)

Corrupt leftist Wikipedia on fake news must be cited with a grain of source.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Wikipedia on fake news must be cited with a grain of source.

Classy.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

I know, right? Several disinformation sites aren't there, including Breitbart, newsbusters, racewar.news, zerohedge, WSJ, bitchute, jpost, thegloriousamerican, OANN, brighteon, trunews, newspunch, newswars, notthebee, dailymail.co.uk, reclaimthenet.org, legalinsurrection, bigleaguepolitics, pjmedia, theintercept, satanslibrary.org, countere, planet-today, fff.org, and various others. Lazy liberals (or whoever they are) can't bother to update the Wikipedia page; meanwhile Radical Republicans have been busy building disinformation sites like these and social networking sites, especially these past 4 years. Liberals better step up.

[–]BoniceMarquiFace 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I (and I think, M7) would agree with the last sentence, and I appreciate the detailed answer, but as you can probably guess, I am referring specifically to alt-right individuals who support the '88 Precepts' and are trying to influence various websites in order to push their agendas. It's not "hurr durr" guesswork. Anyone on Saidit has already seen plenty of it, but here are some lists of the resources used by these alt-right groups to spread disinformation and propaganda:

You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but I haven't so much as glanced at fringe lunatics like the Daily Stormer or Stormfront in a couple years, and AFAIK nothing of the sort has popped up recently on 4chan, so I was asking if there was evidence in a group like that of them specifically trying to raid other sites as they have done (though to a rather pathetically small scale) in the past

Because I am in fact aware of those groups and other fringe lunatics doing this sort of thing on their own

But the fact I haven't even come across a reference to one such group, and the lunatics-in-question are coming from some vague "organically organized hate machine", I have to assume there is a false-identity shill op going on

...here are some lists of the resources used by these alt-right groups to spread disinformation and propaganda:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alt-right+social+media+gab+parler+8chan&t=h_&ia=web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news_websites_in_the_United_States

None of that is a link to a group pushing something

By contrast, I can find you several examples from leftist-extremists talking about doing this all the time, though they usually reference things organized in non-public forums

https://www.chapo.chat/post/57572

https://www.hexbear.net/post/2772/comment/19228

...I think radicalising libs is one of the strengths of chapo.chat as it has a pretty inclusive and humorous vibe which other left subs dont really have, plus as many people face the choice between trump and biden amongst the chaos of 2020 they are starting to realise how little power and control they have over their own lives.

Not trying to hype up the importance of this place, it’s ultimately just a niche corner of extremely online weirdos but it’s the best thing I’ve found out there.

https://www.hexbear.net/post/14099

hey brigaders did you know that terfs created a reddit alternative too?

Fakename_Billhe/him

58

7 months

I’m so glad I get to say this here without fear of getting banned:

LET’S BRIGADE THE FUCK OUT OF THAT SHITHOLE

So what I'm asking is for an equivalent to any of that, regarding the fringe groups you are talking about

I'm especially suspicious because quite a few of the most anti-social "right wing extremist" groups I've seen, like Atomwaffen, have had their communications organizers (the people leading the posting of the most hateful, incendiary stuff) actually end up being diehard leftists/antifas who "leak" information to publications all the time, and are actually just trying to manipulate normal but guillable idiots into acting out the stereotype of some hateful, racist/ect asshole who is a threat to public security

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Nice to see you've arrived Marquis.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the info. There are two problems here:

1) There are numerous recent alt-right outlets

2) At a deeper level - per recent PhD research on this - there are Russian and other "troll-farms"/companies that are not obviously focused on 'right' or 'left', but on getting people to fight over right and left and everything else. Getting people angry is their focus. This ultimately supports the election of Trump and similar puppets who can look like they're for the 99% initially, but are definitely puppets for corrupt elements of the international 1%. The Russian website, hexbear.net, includes discussions of some of the professional trolls. Not that they are trolling one another on that specific site, but bouncing ideas around. Hexbear.net is also much bigger than that, and one hardly notices the professionals unless one looks for them.

It seems you've asked me a question:

So what I'm asking is for an equivalent to any of that, regarding the fringe groups you are talking about

But I am not sure what's at issue here. If you can rephrase the question with more specific terms, I can try to assess an (another?) 'equivalent' 'fringe group'.

I should note that I am not a specialist on 'fringe groups' Much of what I've seen of the alt-right is already here at Saidit, and many of them aren't considered 'fringe' but instead mainstream right-wing

[–]Zapped 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I mostly agree with what you said, with the exception of Russian puppets. Instability is the main goal. It allows them more free range in their international adventures. China has been using the combination of feeding domestic turbulence with buying political influence since they are still tied so closely to the U.S. economy.

[–]ballooon 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Daily Mail is not disinformation, it is the glorious british shitrag.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

It's definitely a propaganda/disinformation website, though it tries not to look like one. There are many reasons for this, which would require a bit of an explanation.

[–]ballooon 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

That was sarcasm, of course the daily mail posts disinfo among its other embarassing stuff... I mean, who doesn't love populist crap with a sprinkle of celebrity tits here and there?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I see. (One can't be too sure on Saidit.) Glorious British Shitrag indeed.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

racewar.news

This one glows like the Sun.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Are you lumping all progressives, libertarians, and anarchists in with the Alt-Right?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

no - these and other sites are mainly alt-right and libertarian, which have similar goals (eat the 99%, slowly)

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting that you lump alt-right and libertarian together.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

My mistake.

You started with "Several disinformation sites aren't there, including..."

And ended with "...meanwhile Radical Republicans have been busy building disinformation sites like these and social networking sites, especially these past 4 years." (Emphasis mine.)

I'd lost the thread and assumed "these and social networking sites" meant SaidIt.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Oh - I see. I've learned about some of them at Saidit, but I am not referring to Saidit as one of the sites.