Shill/bot upvoting?

submitted by Intuit from self.SaidIt

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (56 children)

Octopus, yes; leftist, no, especially the 88/LXXXIII Nazi extremism that has also been in /s/ironleft . (Seems they were banned for good reason.)

The daily astroturf person or people are - seems to me - using QBoogaloo Oath Keeper Nazi extremists language in their posts (eg. 8/8 upvotes& topics), even though - as /u/magnora7 has noted - they are also mainly trying to kill engagement at Saidit, or at the very least they're pushing an '88 Precepts' agenda, for whatever reason.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 7 fun12 insightful - 6 fun13 insightful - 7 fun -  (13 children)

I'm not a fun of numerology.

Their symbol is a giant octopus devouring the whole planet for the Greater Good. A perfect depiction of collectivism and internationality. It even has a red star.

International collectivist zealots are commies, not nazis.

QBoogaloo Oath Keeper Nazi extremists language

Lol. And he wants to save us from conspiracy theories and misinformation.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

International collectivist zealots are commies, not nazis.

Ahistorical.

Both the Fascist movements in Italy and Germany grew out of:

The Italian Socialist Party, which was the basis of Mussolini's Fascist movement (after they kicked him out in 1914 and in 1915 the members of his movement called themselves Fascists ('fascio' meaning "a bundle of sticks", or imperial collective, in reference Imperial Rome)

German National Socialism arose from this ideology soon afterword, as a way of attracting socialists to the Nazi movement and in agreement with the fascist goal for:

the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire [Wikipedia / fascism]

Fascists and Nazis have always been collectivists, because they've been focused on worker's programs, imperial ambitions, and authoritarian control of the masses (eg. authoritarian/nationalist movements in China, Russia, India, Israel, Turkey, Philippines, Myanmar, Brasil &c) [edit: words]

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

Fascists and Nazis have always been collectivists

I'm aware. Nazis want control over a nation, fascists over a country, communists over the world.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

Jesus - fascists have had imperial ambitions, which continue today in the countries I mention, even if we no longer call some of these nations empires. (See for example Gildea's 'Empires of the Mind', which isn't about the mind, but rather Imperial developments today)

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

But, compared to Great Britain and the Soviet Union, the fascists were the biggest anti-imperialists.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Hence the Italian and German invasions of several countries?

[–]Area_88 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

And the Japanese invasions, no less!

As for communist "imperialism"... I guess the Soviet Union under Stalin is the main culprit... but other than that? They seized a part of Germany... but so did the US. North Korea wants re-unification with the South, but again so did US-occupied West-Germany with the East. China's "imperialism" is mainly tangible trade & development programs that do not even seek to topple/supplant the governments already in place.

Hmmm... it's almost as if there's actually a difference between rightwing imperialism... and leftwing internationalism... 🤔

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Though this is not necessarly 'right' or 'left' and never was. What you mention is 'imperial' and authoritarian, which has much older and deeper roots in these imperial ambitions. Moreover, the support by China in infrastructure in African nations, South America, and Eastern Europe has also inserted considerable influence on those governments. China (and Japan) used the US playbook for some of this. If the corrupt governments don't coooperate with their generous investors, the problematic politicians are replaced.

[–]Area_88 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Though this is not necessarly 'right' or 'left' and never was.

It absolutely is.
Thing is: people like to mix & match things to see what works and what doesn't -- sometimes by accident/confusion. Sometimes, it leads them to live a contradiction. Other times, it proves to be the right i.e. left way ahead.

Moreover, the support by China in infrastructure in African nations, South America, and Eastern Europe has also inserted considerable influence on those governments.

Fair game. My parents have had considerable influence on how I govern myself. So did that mugger who held me at gunpoint.

I would never confuse the two though. Would you?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Dude, you're wrong. Stop digging yourself deeper. It's tiresome looking at you trying to make history fit your erroneous narrative.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

imperial

Any successful nation rediscovers imperialism eventually. Nazis can be called the least imperialistic because their attachment to blood purity turns everyone into their natural enemy and reduces their recruitment pool.

Of course, in the real world any nationalist state would switch to fascism after some success. Because people only want what is rare. When freedom is rare, liberty factions rise. When a nation faces extinction, nationalist factions arise. Remove the scarcity, and people will forget it exists.

Communism can be said to be the most imperialistic because it sees the whole world as their recruits and all countries as temporally occupied territories.

[–]BoniceMarquiFace 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

The daily astroturf person or people are - seems to me - using QBoogaloo Oath Keeper Nazi extremists language in their posts (eg. 8/8 upvotes& topics), even though - as /u/magnora7 has noted - they are also mainly trying to kill engagement at Saidit, or at the very least they're pushing an '88 Precepts' agenda, for whatever reason.

Shills are shills, the ideology is less relevant

The problem however is that there are virtually no right wing groups (or even extremist/fringes) with the organizational prowess to engage in shill efforts with the intent to disrupt a website, outside of some (fringe) forums that might target a site

So if there's a lack of heavily populated fringe forums explicitly targeting a site, but the posters give over-the-top identifier labels, it's safe to assume the posters are assuming a false identity

Blaming that activity on "hurr durr the right wing extremist crowd" is as stupid as blaming "Russian bots" infiltrating the left

https://archive.is/aD361

As political censorship escalates on social media, American spy agencies accuse Russia of running a fake left-wing news website called PeaceData. But there is no evidence for the FBI’s claims, and many questions remain unanswered.

By Ben Norton

...At the center of the intrigue is a suspicious website called PeaceData. The FBI and a Pentagon-backed private intelligence firm called Graphika claim the page is a Russian government vehicle for pushing disinformation in English, but there is no tangible evidence to support the claim — only a statement posted in comically broken English that sounds much more like someone trying to impersonate a Russian than sophisticated Kremlin operatives.

PeaceData was completely unknown before it was identified by the FBI as the heart of a supposed Russian disinformation scheme. The website had next to no following, with just 197 likes on Facebook, and negligible web traffic.

PeaceData published articles from a left-wing perspective, the majority of which criticized US military interventions and Western imperialism. Most of these posts were reprinted without permission from real, independent progressive news outlets.

Every aspect of PeaceData’s existence and online behavior appears suspicious. The only third party that had access to the website’s social media data is a Pentagon contractor called Graphika. This US government-backed tech firm prepared a lengthy report on PeaceData, but offered absolutely no proof that Moscow was behind it.

Another former PeaceData writer who was given a large platform in The Guardian previously interned for conservative Democrat Congressman Don Beyer, wrote anti-Russian articles, and pushes Russiagate narratives on social media.

Why would dubious and apparently compromised figures like these have leapt at the opportunity to write for an unknown website whose editorial line was so clearly at odds with their stated views? And how did that previously unknown online operation find these obscure figures?

I'd bet money that this brigading of 'undesirables' (me referring to people posting trash to repel others) is a pretext by some shill group trying to get u/magnora to ask for help with "cracking down on trolls"

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

I (and I think, M7) would agree with the last sentence, and I appreciate the detailed answer, but as you can probably guess, I am referring specifically to alt-right individuals who support the '88 Precepts' and are trying to influence various websites in order to push their agendas. It's not "hurr durr" guesswork. Anyone on Saidit has already seen plenty of it, but here are some lists of the resources used by these alt-right groups to spread disinformation and propaganda:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alt-right+social+media+gab+parler+8chan&t=h_&ia=web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news_websites_in_the_United_States

[–]JasonCarswell 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (16 children)

Corrupt leftist Wikipedia on fake news must be cited with a grain of source.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Wikipedia on fake news must be cited with a grain of source.

Classy.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

I know, right? Several disinformation sites aren't there, including Breitbart, newsbusters, racewar.news, zerohedge, WSJ, bitchute, jpost, thegloriousamerican, OANN, brighteon, trunews, newspunch, newswars, notthebee, dailymail.co.uk, reclaimthenet.org, legalinsurrection, bigleaguepolitics, pjmedia, theintercept, satanslibrary.org, countere, planet-today, fff.org, and various others. Lazy liberals (or whoever they are) can't bother to update the Wikipedia page; meanwhile Radical Republicans have been busy building disinformation sites like these and social networking sites, especially these past 4 years. Liberals better step up.

[–]BoniceMarquiFace 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I (and I think, M7) would agree with the last sentence, and I appreciate the detailed answer, but as you can probably guess, I am referring specifically to alt-right individuals who support the '88 Precepts' and are trying to influence various websites in order to push their agendas. It's not "hurr durr" guesswork. Anyone on Saidit has already seen plenty of it, but here are some lists of the resources used by these alt-right groups to spread disinformation and propaganda:

You'll have to forgive my ignorance, but I haven't so much as glanced at fringe lunatics like the Daily Stormer or Stormfront in a couple years, and AFAIK nothing of the sort has popped up recently on 4chan, so I was asking if there was evidence in a group like that of them specifically trying to raid other sites as they have done (though to a rather pathetically small scale) in the past

Because I am in fact aware of those groups and other fringe lunatics doing this sort of thing on their own

But the fact I haven't even come across a reference to one such group, and the lunatics-in-question are coming from some vague "organically organized hate machine", I have to assume there is a false-identity shill op going on

...here are some lists of the resources used by these alt-right groups to spread disinformation and propaganda:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=alt-right+social+media+gab+parler+8chan&t=h_&ia=web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_news_websites_in_the_United_States

None of that is a link to a group pushing something

By contrast, I can find you several examples from leftist-extremists talking about doing this all the time, though they usually reference things organized in non-public forums

https://www.chapo.chat/post/57572

https://www.hexbear.net/post/2772/comment/19228

...I think radicalising libs is one of the strengths of chapo.chat as it has a pretty inclusive and humorous vibe which other left subs dont really have, plus as many people face the choice between trump and biden amongst the chaos of 2020 they are starting to realise how little power and control they have over their own lives.

Not trying to hype up the importance of this place, it’s ultimately just a niche corner of extremely online weirdos but it’s the best thing I’ve found out there.

https://www.hexbear.net/post/14099

hey brigaders did you know that terfs created a reddit alternative too?

Fakename_Billhe/him

58

7 months

I’m so glad I get to say this here without fear of getting banned:

LET’S BRIGADE THE FUCK OUT OF THAT SHITHOLE

So what I'm asking is for an equivalent to any of that, regarding the fringe groups you are talking about

I'm especially suspicious because quite a few of the most anti-social "right wing extremist" groups I've seen, like Atomwaffen, have had their communications organizers (the people leading the posting of the most hateful, incendiary stuff) actually end up being diehard leftists/antifas who "leak" information to publications all the time, and are actually just trying to manipulate normal but guillable idiots into acting out the stereotype of some hateful, racist/ect asshole who is a threat to public security

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Nice to see you've arrived Marquis.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the info. There are two problems here:

1) There are numerous recent alt-right outlets

2) At a deeper level - per recent PhD research on this - there are Russian and other "troll-farms"/companies that are not obviously focused on 'right' or 'left', but on getting people to fight over right and left and everything else. Getting people angry is their focus. This ultimately supports the election of Trump and similar puppets who can look like they're for the 99% initially, but are definitely puppets for corrupt elements of the international 1%. The Russian website, hexbear.net, includes discussions of some of the professional trolls. Not that they are trolling one another on that specific site, but bouncing ideas around. Hexbear.net is also much bigger than that, and one hardly notices the professionals unless one looks for them.

It seems you've asked me a question:

So what I'm asking is for an equivalent to any of that, regarding the fringe groups you are talking about

But I am not sure what's at issue here. If you can rephrase the question with more specific terms, I can try to assess an (another?) 'equivalent' 'fringe group'.

I should note that I am not a specialist on 'fringe groups' Much of what I've seen of the alt-right is already here at Saidit, and many of them aren't considered 'fringe' but instead mainstream right-wing

[–]Zapped 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I mostly agree with what you said, with the exception of Russian puppets. Instability is the main goal. It allows them more free range in their international adventures. China has been using the combination of feeding domestic turbulence with buying political influence since they are still tied so closely to the U.S. economy.

[–]ballooon 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Daily Mail is not disinformation, it is the glorious british shitrag.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

It's definitely a propaganda/disinformation website, though it tries not to look like one. There are many reasons for this, which would require a bit of an explanation.

[–]ballooon 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

That was sarcasm, of course the daily mail posts disinfo among its other embarassing stuff... I mean, who doesn't love populist crap with a sprinkle of celebrity tits here and there?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I see. (One can't be too sure on Saidit.) Glorious British Shitrag indeed.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

racewar.news

This one glows like the Sun.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Are you lumping all progressives, libertarians, and anarchists in with the Alt-Right?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

no - these and other sites are mainly alt-right and libertarian, which have similar goals (eat the 99%, slowly)

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting that you lump alt-right and libertarian together.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

My mistake.

You started with "Several disinformation sites aren't there, including..."

And ended with "...meanwhile Radical Republicans have been busy building disinformation sites like these and social networking sites, especially these past 4 years." (Emphasis mine.)

I'd lost the thread and assumed "these and social networking sites" meant SaidIt.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Oh - I see. I've learned about some of them at Saidit, but I am not referring to Saidit as one of the sites.

[–]Chipit 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (17 children)

These are leftists wearing false moustache disguises. Like so many other accounts on this site. They try to demoralize and disrupt the site, preventing people from joining and discouraging longterm users from continuing. These tactics work, these people have got to be gotten rid of. Pronto.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

These are leftists wearing false moustache disguises.

Remember when you were pretending to be a Chinese transgender incel named SNOW?

Back then you were all about harassing newcomers, and starting up conversations with others about their possible attraction to underage girls, etc.

Some groups hated you, and made a Teach Snow English sub, because you pretended to have bad grammar.
I suppose you also were pretending not to know about grammar checking software.

If all of this sounds stupid, then we're in agreement.

It was stupid.

[–]Chipit 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

For the last fucking time, Snow was not me. Just give it up.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

For the last fucking time, Snow was not me. Just give it up.

Saidit OGs know the history.

How you miraculously found SNOWS posts elsewhere from two independent and separate locations and then posted it here. It's so far from probable.

You posted it there, and then you pretended to find your own crappy posts.

Bush league material. Bad comedy...

Twice, because it was ignored the first time.

A well-intentioned and honest person would have notified M7, because it was absurd beyond belief.

Instead, you tried to sensationalize it.
Twice.

You had to. Your fake SNOW account had quit, and no one noticed, or cared.

So, there it is.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah I was browsing /r/conspiracy one day and was like, hey, it's that guy they all hate on that other site! So I posted it.

Then my first real experience with the conspiracy theory mindset. Immediate assumption with ironclad assurance, undeterred by evidence. I understand a lot better now how conspiracy theories propagate...but only among certain people with the mindset. It's why their websites have the same voice.

I learned a lot about why conspiracy theorists are so disliked and never get anyone on their side.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah I was browsing /r/conspiracy one day and was like, hey, it's that guy they all hate on that other site! So I posted it.

Cool story.

Really??? Browsing /r/conspiracy, huh?

SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE A CONSPIRACY THEORIST.

I learned a lot about why conspiracy theorists are so disliked and never get anyone on their side.

Shills gonna shill

/u/JasonCarswell
/u/Magnora7
/u/Airbus320

Hey guys, chipshit is writing jokes.

Edit: Preserving Chipshit's conspiracy comment

Chipit 2 insightful - 3 fun - 10 hours ago Yeah I was browsing /r/conspiracy one day and was like, hey, it's that guy they all hate on that other site! So I posted it.

Then my first real experience with the conspiracy theory mindset. Immediate assumption with ironclad assurance, undeterred by evidence. I understand a lot better now how conspiracy theories propagate...but only among certain people with the mindset. It's why their websites have the same voice.

I learned a lot about why conspiracy theorists are so disliked and never get anyone on their side.

[–]Chipit 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

See? This behavior...it's not normal. People don't do this. Calling in a mob to harass other users? Who does that?

It isn't even about me. You've got some awful problem in your personal life and you're taking it out on me. I'm sorry it's like this. Maybe take a break from posting for a while. Every time I read one of your posts it's full of anger at someone. You ever notice that about yourself?

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

He is afraid of snow

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

https://saidit.net/s/teachsnowenglish/

A classic.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Weak.

Are you going to cite any examples, or provide any evidence?

I'm just joking.

We both know that shills like yourself hate actual evidence.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

It's certainly a curious story, but it doesn't solidify ice Chipit's from Snow. There could be many other explanations for the exceptional circumstances of this coincidence. For example: Maybe one shill was outing another shill. The CIA and FBI have often ensnared each other. Friendly fire happens.

That said, it's no secret how I feel, and I can't condone it, but I also won't tell you to stop harassing Chipit until he melts away like Snow.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

it's no secret how I feel, and I can't condone it,

You're a coincidence theorist for anyone on a forum.

I also won't tell you to stop harassing Chipit until he melts away like Snow.

He's a glutton for humiliation.

I should start calling him Snipit.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

You're a coincidence theorist for anyone on a forum.

I don't think that's true. I don't see enough evidence to see Chipit as Snow. I also don't like calling most people shills. However, I have no problem calling Chipit and Socks shills most of the time, or calling Bob3 and Airpuss asstrolls half the time.

He's a glutton for humiliation.

Gluttony is a sin. Feed him MOAR!

I should start calling him Snipit.

Or CowChipped.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

You know that they never post anything that is anywhere near leftist. So, if they were actual leftists playing a false moustache game, they wouldn't understand or be up-to-date with much of the alt-right stuff they post. Leftists make terrible shills. There are occasional claims that the IDF (Israel) are behind some of this. And there are well known Russian and Chinese troll farms. And in the US you can make a living with troll accounts, but the specific person or people targetting Saidit with the Octopus 88 nonsense knows Saidit very well and believes very much in the alt-right, racist, nonsense they post.

[–]Chipit 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

You kidding me? They don't post actual far right content. They act as obnoxiously as possible to scare away users. Only the left wants that, and paid social media influencers are this year's big innovation. The hard left got a ton of cash dumped on it in 2020 and they're using it to fund these campaigns.

The other day one of them used a tactic on me that the US government had used in their online campaigns against jihadi groups. Someone with advanced knowledge of psychology is training them. Actual far right are mostly complete idiots, and are especially terrible at understanding psychology.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

lol - I can counter with evidence that actual leftists are complete idiots, but - in any event - we've made our points

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Due to the personality differences and what they prioritize, leftists can usually communicate a lot better and write without spelling errors or the all caps so beloved of the far right. They're also not smart enough to use tactics taught in the war on terror to disrupt and demoralize jihadi groups.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[removed]

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

    (Seems they were banned for good reason.)

    That reason being?

    Did you Nazi that coming?

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    (Genuinely curios!)