Saidit's 'free speech' is under attack from the new admin, who is of course a tranny. Check the moderation logs and see individual user posts to see what is being removed and ask yourself "is this level of censorship in line with saidit's rules, or are they serving a personal agenda'.

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[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (37 children)

LOL.

You're clearly not containing it, nor is it fair.

You are being retarded. Containing it is the opposite of bleeding over. Having a trusted team is the opposite of drama. This OP is the fucking definition of drama - stemming from YOU and your policies, or lack thereof.

You don't know for certain "that will definitely make things worse" because you've never even fucking tried it.

" You're basically advocating for a witchhunt atmosphere. "

LOL! Priceless coming from you, the guy who's been witch hunting me.

Because you're to dense, I'll repeat FYI: You'll still always be in charge, with veto power, and can call off any "witch hunts" you see fit. Even to protect your ABCs STABs that I haven't ever seen you call out for misbehaving. At worst in these comments you called Bob3 a "genius".

" it's not ever happening. "

Then all the SaidIt loss is yours, past, present, and future.

[–]magnora7 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (30 children)

So you advocate for more censorship, while also posting about your friend who was censored on a daily basis.

You want contradictory things. And you don't even realize it. And this is somehow my fault? lol

Also we did try it, when I was gone because of the ice storm and you PM'd amelia and convinced them to make that "public trials" post, which caused a ridiculous amount of drama. So yes, we've tried it and it clearly failed. It's a non-starter. It doesn't work.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Why not divide the site via left/center/right filtering? Then you don't have to censor anyone. You can set the default to center.

The problem with the left is they push for power, and when in power censor the right. The right allow everyone their fair shake, and they aren't as motivated to lead. Which is why they are losing right now. There's actually a law written about this. You claim to be center, but you're pushing the agenda of the left, so as far as I'm concerned you're left in intent, or effect. In reality you're probably center-left, but once you past center and go left, you get pulled into a black hole and end up much further than where you started. I was political center as a student, but as the left encroached over the mainstream in the past decades, I became increasingly more right-wing as a response to that encroachment.

As an example, Canadian political parties are generally far left, left, and right. Usually left or far left win the elections. Only occasionally do the right win. The left call themselves centrists but their policies are quite liberal belying that label.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Kind of an interesting idea, we could replace the insightful/fun votes with left/right votes and then you could set how right you wanted to view or how left you wanted to view and pick your range of left/right ratios you find acceptable.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Kind of totally changes the premise of the site, or, am I wrong? Is this a political debate forum? I know it turns into that a lot, but, does it need to be that? I feel like that would create odd bubbles.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah you are correct, it'd be on a different website if we did that, for sure. Not on saidit

But yeah it would create a lot of odd bubbles probably

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I have some better ideas I'll be sharing soon.

[–]christnmusicreleases 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Looking forward to it. I think in the end, free speech shouldn't be limited, it should just be put in its proper place for those who would want to hear/see it.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

YES!

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Insightful piece about this written in 2014: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/22/right-is-the-new-left/

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

Now you're getting beyond retarded into being childish and calling the kettle black. I'll explain...

First:
There's NOTHING contradictory about wanting fairness and openness. I defy you to prove me wrong. Make me realize it. I desperately want to understand so I can stop pestering you to be fair and open or I'll just always want you to be fair and open. I will not budge on this without legitimate reasons and I simply can't imagine any (and I'm very creative).

Everything on SaidIt is your responsibility, including shit that goes wrong. It IS your fault that you have ignored the many who are asking for more fairness and openness, including the many times that I've offered solutions, refined to the present form I currently promote.

On SaidIt you are the Supreme Censor, without transparency nor accountability. Because of this I have had ZERO knowledge of DioJr's alleged being "censored on a daily basis". I cannot simply take your word for it because you've exaggerated and even childishly lied MANY times before. Without outrageous proof I'm not inclined to believe your outrageous claims - and, because I'm a good little skeptic, I'm also not inclined to believe DioJr either. MANY of us want to judge for ourselves.

As mod or even "power-mod" I have barely even bothered with spam, much less censoring anyone's posts. I've given warnings a few times about inappropriate posts in the wrong subs. But let's just pretend for sake of argument that I want to advocate for more censorship. First, you would be wise to not select me for your trusted-team. On the off chance I were among them, you and they would see my blood lust for censorship ONLY if my rationals were not befitting the alleged crimes of those rare few that go on trial. They would be long term active users who've become problematic, much different than the other inconsequential short-term STABs. Seeing my blood lust you'd realize I'm no longer fit to be a part of your trusted-team, an honour just to be considered, but no longer a voice in the final say. Like all users, I'd still be able to voice my concerns and ideas only in the open "drama" sub where the trusted-team would openly deliberate and come to a rational decision, collectively together - under your veto powers. You may determine their rules and guidelines or you could trust them to establish their own, under your ultimate approval. Any residual "blame" would be spread among your trusted-team, and because you picked and trust them, they would likely align with whatever decision you'd have made anyway.

" Also we did try it "

False.
That was NOT any sort of authentic organized try at all. "WE" didn't try - she tried (apparently, in a locked sub) and YOU shut it down. Gimme a fucking break.

" you PM'd amelia "

False.
She PM'ed me for help, and I even asked her if I could quote it, and I did, in my post. It moved me so much that it brought tears to my eyes because THIS was the evolution MANY of us had been wanting so long.

Then she went and did whatever she did without me even being aware of it. I have not been invited nor informed of any trusted-team being formed.

I miss a lot while drafting my longer posts as they usually take a day or two and I want them as clear as possible in their best form. Perhaps this is why I missed her alleged attempt in that /s/gov that was locked. I'll never know without access and timelines.

" convinced them to make that "public trials" post, which caused a ridiculous amount of drama. "

First I'm hearing about it. Must of been a ridiculously boring drama. At least you're opening up to even acknowledge some small details and bothering to let us all know. Will you let us read this public trial drama or will /s/gov remain locked and censored from us?

" So yes, we've tried it and it clearly failed. It's a non-starter. It doesn't work. "

False.
A flash in the pan, now locked and secreted away, does not count as a legitimate attempt at fairness and openness. At the very least allow a post-mortem, critical analysis, tweaks and refinements, other iterations and attempts, and a reasonable effort before you write it all off. You know, the actually scientific method.

 

You are the power-mod you dread.

 

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

You need to calm down. You can't advocate for contradictory things and then act like I'm the bad guy.

You're being very dramatic while trying to convince me public trials won't cause a bunch of drama. Your post itself is proving my point...

If this actually brought tears to your eyes, you should probably take a break from this website. That's not healthy, brother.

[–]Chipit 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, he spends way too much time on the site and it's obvious it's a huge part of his life. This stuff means something to him. I just post links and stuff.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

" calm down. "

As I said before: If I wasn't calm my thoughts wouldn't be so organized. Being dismissive does not give you the look you want.

You have yet to even explain the alleged "contradictory things."

You remain the source of the drama with your stubborn refusal to even properly try any alternative other than your own dictatorship without accountability or transparency. In this case you ARE the bad guy, determined to maintain all control while playing the victim always crying about being burdened by STABs and drama. Solutions exist.

" If this actually brought tears to your eyes, you should probably take a break from this website. That's not healthy, brother. "

You sure act like a child for someone who wants to be taken seriously as any kind of leader.

AGAIN you've avoided actually discussing the legitimate issues I've raised - much like shills do.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

Your thoughts aren't particularly organized, and the constant bolding and caps and 10 paragraph responses indicate you're highly emotional right now.

You're just peddling a bunch of talking points to try and smear this website. Doesn't look good.

Crying over a website rule change isn't normal or healthy. I think you should take a break from saidit for your mental health. This is just a forum website. Take it easy.

I don't like being called "the bad guy" over and over by a person who claims they're posting in good faith. Seems like you're having a meltdown. You should really take a break from this website if you're this deeply bothered, honestly.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Your thoughts aren't particularly organized, and the constant bolding and caps and 10 paragraph responses indicate you're highly emotional right now.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. It doesn't make it true at all. Furthermore, I'm not just writing to you - readers see you're full of shit with fallacious childish behaviour avoiding the issues.

Plus, many agree and appreciate my time, effort, writings, and ideas.

You're just peddling a bunch of talking points to try and smear this website. Doesn't look good.

So you claim. Break it down for us. They've only become like talking points because I've said them so many times and you've refused to address them, as you are now.

The bad look is your own, but this is not new.

Crying over a website rule change isn't normal or healthy. I think you should take a break from saidit for your mental health. This is just a forum website. Take it easy.

I never said "crying". I said it brought tears to my eyes.

Being normal and healthy would be legitimately addressing the issues rather than these games of avoidance. It would also be normal and healthy to be fair and open instead of a ego-driven power-mod.

Bringing up my mental health only shows how desperate and low you're stooping. My mental health has never been better since my Big Pharma poison days, and I'm often saying that despite the scamdemic 2020 was my best year since 2007, when I was directing before the 2008 crash.

Being dismissive does not give you the look you want.

I don't like being called "the bad guy" over and over by a person who claims they're posting in good faith.

Then stop being the bad guy.

If you doubt my claims of good faith then prove me wrong in the court of public opinion judged by my respected peers.

Seems like you're having a meltdown.

LOL. No meltdown here, that's your department when you get childish and try to be manipulative and deceptive like this and sooo many times before.

You should really take a break from this website if you're this deeply bothered, honestly.

Being dismissive does not give you the look you want.

AGAIN you've avoided actually discussing the legitimate issues I've raised - much like shills do.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Nope. You will be judged by me. That's how this website has worked for 3 years. There is no court of public opinion, nor will there ever be, because that's not how this website works and any attempts to try such a system were met with immediate failure. Get over it, or make your own website. End of discussion.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

any attempts to try such a system were met with immediate failure.

You don't know that.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Yeah I do. We all saw it happen. It's a settled discussion. Your thing is not happening.

[–]Node 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

that "public trials" post, which caused a ridiculous amount of drama. "

That post was called something like "I'm trying to do better", in which TAM named "enemy users", and declared "war" on them. It was fairly dramatic.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

That does sound bad.

That's not on me.

That's not on M7 directly, but he did recruit her, very young and inexperienced and lacking delicacy and wisdom and being self-admittedly tone-blind.

And it is partly on TAM, being stuck in a pinch under pressure, resorting to desperate naive and frankly stupid measures in that moment, apparently ignoring the careful methodical points I'd outlined - like forming a trusted-team rather than lynching list. I almost wonder if she even actually read my post in full.

It's also the STABs fault for being STABs. Never forget they are the source of most of the problems and drama. In-fighting is what they want.

[–]Node 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

To be fair, Bob3 was goading a bit. Still, you're supposed to stay a little out of the fray as an admin.

Would be nice if we could just go back to commenting on interesting posts and skip all the drama.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

110% agree on all fronts.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Containing it is the opposite of bleeding over.

Your proposal is essentially the same. Containment by trusted council. The council would be the new source of drama. Council drama, etc.

Who's to say we're not all shills? Shills are patient, and their backers have near-infinite resources.
Someone gets doxxed, and they're compromised. Then they dox others.

If M7 were to adopt open community-based solutions for fair social-management these "site culture problems" now dumped on the admins' shoulders would no longer exist

Any successful analogues?

Then all the SaidIt loss is yours, past, present, and future.

I'll repeat FYI: You'll still always be in charge, with veto power, and can call off any "witch hunts" you see fit.

If this is true, then why are we entertaining this right now?
It's been rejected, so that should be the end of it.

If the option is tested, and M7 rejects it then it becomes a perfectly manufactured excuse for massive drama.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I'm quite certain there'd be drama - but at least it would be open and verifiable, and would need to be rational from the team.

When the shills have long-term goals we'll cross that bridge. They don't just yet.

Everyone on SaidIt should already be aware they could be doxxed. The team should be extra aware. Anonymous is only as good as their precautions, and maybe not even then.

Any successful analogues?

"A burden shared is a burden lifted"

If this is true, then why are we entertaining this right now? It's been rejected, so that should be the end of it.

It will never be the end until we have fairness and openness or good reasons against them are shared, publicly or privately. Further, this is NOT the only problem many of us have with M7. There is not much of a future for SaidIt without evolution. This is not a threat, this is a fact.

If the option is tested, and M7 rejects it then it becomes a perfectly manufactured excuse for massive drama.

We'll never know until he gives it a fair shake.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Any successful analogues?

A burden shared is a burden lifted

More likely it would descend into a burden shilled, and then a burden shitshow.

We'll never know until he gives it a fair shake.

We know you have been looking into this, and you're best response is this...

A burden shared is a burden lifted

There's an endless line of shills who would love to shill the "burden".

Given the current set of issues, there's little doubt that's what would happen.

The most practical option is for someone to do like M7, and fork reddit and publicly share to your heart's content.

We'll never know until he you gives it a fair shake

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

More likely it would descend into a burden shilled, and then a burden shitshow.

Perhaps on SaidIt.

We know you have been looking into this

/s/Cooperatives? I don't know what answer you want. It's fucking self evident.

YES, there will be drama, but most of the STABs are quickly and easily already dealt with. The drama is from the grey area. The trusted-team would steer people away from the grey, develop more examples, guides, and rules to abide by than just the PoD. The trusted-team would develop systems, including many we've already expressed. Strikes with expiration dates. Strike 1 = ban for 2 days. Strike 2 = ban for 2 weeks. Strike 3 = ban for good. After 6 months the strikes are erased. Shit like that. They can come up with their own systems.

Further, if there are some limits like one post per case, then it's all contained - keeping most off the front page, or considering it spam.

Shills gonna shill. Because they are STABs their actions will reveal themselves. The team will be their own security too, openly dealing with the STABs, and we'll all watch the watchers.

Given the current set of issues, there's little doubt that's what would happen.

I agree. Maybe my ideas can be improved on, or there are better ones out there. If we don't try or evolve we're doomed. If we try and fail, we'll learn, and develop better ways to try, and eventually we'll succeed until their A.I. takes us down. Unless we evolve and/or decentralize away from the M7 dictatorship.

I have a new top priority idea I'll be working on after today (or my next good sleep). M7 can participate or not. We'll be evolving with or without him.

The most practical option is for someone to do like M7, and fork reddit and publicly share to your heart's content.

Do you mean SaidIt? You're almost reading my mind. It's simple, but not that simple.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

We know you have been looking into this.

This is a matter of observation, and not an accusation.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry. I was getting tired. Also, if they aren't self evident then they need to be improved until they are. And of course, if you haven't read them then that's not on me.

We know you have been looking into this.

Actually I haven't looked into it. I absorb what I can as it comes up.

I came up with my fair and open social-management ideas myself, over years, through deduction and reason, finding problems in it to add more solutions to deal with them.

As I've also stated many times before, if there are any other systems out there, especially better ones, I'd love to hear about them.