Saidit's 'free speech' is under attack from the new admin, who is of course a tranny. Check the moderation logs and see individual user posts to see what is being removed and ask yourself "is this level of censorship in line with saidit's rules, or are they serving a personal agenda'.

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[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (91 children)

OK then. I'm just pissed at all the far-left trash making home here. Isn't reddit perfect for them? I know, I know... That's not for you to say, I understand.

Still. Sigh.

[–]magnora7 18 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 4 fun19 insightful - 5 fun -  (85 children)

I mean other people are equally upset at the far-right trash making home here.

What should I do? Just delete any posts I deem too extreme? That's like the definition of biased moderating, and I'm not sure what type of rule(s) could be created that would draw a clear line.

It's just kind of a lose-lose situation in a lot of ways, unfortunately

[–]copenseethe 19 insightful - 4 fun19 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 4 fun -  (24 children)

Being able to debate with people of radically opposing viewpoints without getting banned is the reason that I am here instead of reddit (where I am perma-banned). Please do not change this site to one that ousts people for their political stance.

[–]magnora7 17 insightful - 6 fun17 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 6 fun -  (23 children)

We don't plan to, but at the same time we have to protect ourselves against trolls being far-extremists with dozens of accounts with the intent of hijacking the site's culture to drive the normal users away, which is something that happens regularly to most forums. It's what happened to voat and poal and many other websites, and then they have to clean it up and crack down, or they eventually shut down because all that's left of their userbase is trolls and bots. Saidit maintains a middle-of-the-road approach, and that's not changing.

[–]christnmusicreleases 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

I think the case of both voat and poal, the shills were an intended feature by the site designers, and not a bug. Of course the real users were mostly just redpilled normies, and weren't interested in the racist/extremist posts, but did enjoy the free speech and the good posts made by normal users. I think very few users there were/are actual nazis/far-right extremists. How many people do you see walking around with KKK hats these days? (it was was a Democrat thing in the past, anyways) Hence why I posted there for a while, I just ignored the racist trolls and instigators or called them out for what they did. We need to distinguish the two groups - the shills/trolls/bots and the normies, and not smear the good with the bad.

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

the shills were an intended feature by the site designers, and not a bug.

I used to believe this, but after running this site, I don't think so anymore. These people just show up. Whether they're shills or genuine, they just show up regardless of what I want. And if you don't take action, they just take over the site. That's just what happens. What happened to voat and poal them is a result of inactive moderation, not any action on their part. If I hadn't removed those types of people, saidit would look the exact same way

[–]Trajan 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Agreed. From seeing many sites (forums and wikis) degrade under extremists or trolls, I see benevolent dictatorship as the only way to keep a site running. Broad rules should be there, but it's night-on impossible to write specific rules that don't end in rules lawyering and subsequent unhappiness when somebody gets banned without apparently violating the letter of the law. When identifying problems, it's often the case that you'll know it when you see it.

A benevolent dictator, with mods aligned on the spirit of the site, works pretty well.

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah I kind of agree. I had the idea of making a new forum site like magnora7.com or something and the only rule is "don't piss me off". I wonder how well it would work. I would certainly be able to remove trolls more easily because I could spot them instantly and act instantly, instead of having to worry about the written letter of the law.

I wouldn't do this on saidit obviously, but as another experiment on a new website it might be interesting to try. I think the quality would be higher, tbh. I wouldn't ever have to second-guess myself, and wouldn't have to worry about public perception for every action I take, which eats up a lot of my time and energy. It sure would be a lot easier to run. Maybe I'll try it as an experiment some day. It'd be cool to empower a bunch of other people to be able to do the same. Like hook a bunch of random people up with their own saidits, so we could have 50 different benevolent dictatorships, and maybe only 10 of them end up being good. That might be a cool way to expand the diversity of social media websites, without me having to do much additional work

[–]Trajan 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah, a risky proposition to retrofit that in to Saidit. As you said, it's probably not something that works first time even with the best of intentions. Most sites fail anyway, It needs a good core of users who get what the site is about, and a willingness to come down hard when needed to prevent the site from going down the wrong path. Comparable to the difference between 'Don't be a dick' and the infamous codes of conduct with their long lists of possible transgressions. 'Don't piss me off' works for relatively small sites and if the person with the ban hammer isn't some kind of angry moron.

Quick question for you. A lot of people seem to view Saidit as a free speech platform, and that's not the understanding I get from the about content. Any thoughts on why this perception exists? Maybe the site was pitched differently at an earlier time or does it seem like free speech is a founding principle because it looks that way in comparison to Reddit?

Edit: a question.

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

'Don't piss me off' works for relatively small sites and if the person with the ban hammer isn't some kind of angry moron.

Yeah exactly. Malevolent dictatorships are the worst style of governance.

Quick question for you. A lot of people seem to view Saidit as a free speech platform, and that's not the understanding I get from the about content. Any thoughts on why this perception exists? Maybe the site was pitched differently at an earlier time or does it seem like free speech is a founding principle because it looks that way in comparison to Reddit?

Basically because we exist as "not reddit" there is an implication we're built around free speech. And we are much freer than reddit. But we also realized before we started that we couldn't just let it go 100% free speech with no boundaries or else we wind up with voat and a hijacked site culture and we didn't want that, so we put some modest limits to keep it free speech but prevent it from becoming voat. We've never once advertised ourselves as a "free speech forum" even though that's what we are in a lot of ways.

[–]christnmusicreleases 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

The same shill groups are found on Ruqqus, but the way the site was coded, they are easily filtered out. They still exist but any user who doesn't want to see them can filter them out with a quick filter setting accessible one click from the front page.

I think that is the better way to handle troll groups.

Poal and Voat are broken by design so you can't block that content, you can't escape it, and it was there since I first visited those sites, which was a long time ago.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Anywhere you have freedom, you will have perversion of that freedom as an excuse to commit unthinkable abuse. Then freedom gets restricted or the space becomes an utter cesspool.

[–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The solution is not totalitarianism. The solution is good mechanisms in place coupled with restrained moderation. Power is meant to be more of a deterrent for abuse, rather than a steel boot stomping against the human skull for eternity.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed!!

[–]Feldheld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Nonsense. In the 1990s we had the usenet which was practically unmoderated. Yes, it had the usual infestation by antisemites, leftist hate junkies, and nutty spammers but it was no problem since it also had a well functioning ignore filter. It was a little work to keep the filter up to date but it was well worth it. Only in its best years reddit came close to the quality of open debate the usenet offered.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Oh, I remember that. But that was back when everybody on the 'Net followed Netiquette, which is long dead and buried. So you see, there was not total "freedom" in that good manners were more or less required, removing the "freedom" of being a total asshole.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

How are they easily filtered out on ruqqus? Do they just filter out stuff with enough downvotes? Which means if the trolls have the majority vote they can downvote real content off the site, basically? Which is exactly how voat failed?

[–]christnmusicreleases 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Hide from /all is a context menu option on the guilds. Block user is a context menu option on users.

Trolls don't have the majority vote, Ruqqus has a healthy userbase. If they're obvious trolls (breaking site rules) they get banned, otherwise, they get downvoted to oblivion. Ruqqus is currently more than twice as popular as Saidit according to Alexa stats, and has a much more active userbase.

In addition to this, they have content settings for blocking/allowing NSFW, NSFL, offensive speech, 1000 slots for user custom filters by keyword, and guild categories (although I don't know how the last one works in the equation).

One possible solution for Saidit, if you are concerned about power users, rather than limiting the time when users can post with a rate limit (8 posts per day), you could limit the number of posts on the front page per user allowed at one time. Just cycle them out by user. Maybe make that the default view, and have a more comprehensive view for all that includes all posts by all users for those who want to see absolutely everything regardless of source. This would encourage increased user participation but it would still allow a more diverse front page. And you wouldn't get complaints about user throttling, but you'd still have your utopia.

Otherwise just implement sub/keyword filters and let the users choose what they want to see (my preference and probably, the same for those who value free speech over control). User preferences is much a better approach than hard limitations IMHO.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The opposite of power users seems to be an issue too. Brand new accounts post advertisements to random businesses all over the world on a regular basis.

If new accounts had to earn their rights to post, and to increase their commenting and voting abilities, it would cut down on the new account spam quite a bit.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

At least on poal, you can block the users posting the most retarded spam, which cleans up your front page a lot.

[–]bobbobbybob[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

far-extremists with dozens of accounts with the intent of hijacking the site's culture to drive the normal users away

yet, you can't see that theameliamay is just that.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

... that you know of.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (57 children)

The far-left already have reddit. We of righteousness have nowhere.

[–]magnora7 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (23 children)

You addressed none of the points I brought up

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (22 children)

Because you are right in what you write. There, I wrote it. Is this enough?

I'm just complaining that we have nowhere, not that it's your fault. Although your definition of "obvious spam" leaves to be desired.

[–]magnora7 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

I appreciate it. Truly though we have nowhere because spammers and trolls destroy every large forum of substance, and so this has to be defended against.

If we stopped deleting the attacks, this forum would be destroyed by disinformation and spam rather quickly. We're talking sometimes hundreds of automated posts a day, in ways that cannot be blocked and instead have to be removed after the fact.

The "obvious spam" is stuff like viagra pill ads, links to download printer drivers, indian ringtone download pages, "find immigration consultants in Austrialia", and things like that. Very obvious spam that literally no one wants.

[–]bobbobbybob[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

yet, tam deleted a whole lot of content that was not spam at all. did you not check to see what i'm complaining about?

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Show me some actual examples if you want me to listen

[–]bobbobbybob[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

how can i show you deleted examples? I raised one with this post, about an informative post that told us about the differences between [deleted] and [removed], but tam [removed] it. example #1

while you were away, it was chaos, with whole subs rising and falling like grass.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

while you were away, it was chaos, with whole subs rising and falling like grass.

So you're wholly dependent on me and my actions, yet you're constantly accusing me of being terrible? Where's the logic in that?

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

modlogs, obviously?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Horrux - what would you want to post that is too extreme for Saidit? I see mainly far-right disinformation, misinformation, propaganda, racism, Nazis, sexism, anti-vax, anarchism, Republicans, hatred, criminals, and occasional informative posts on this site. That's one reason I visit the site (even if I don't agree with much of it, I won't see it elsewhere). I cannot imagine what you're talking about. Are you referencing material that's on Parler, Ruqqus, Win, Gab, 8chan, or 16chan? Really, what's missing here? [Edit: words]

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I have no idea what you are talking about.

There is such a thing as discussing what a site is like, without it being all about what I want to use it for. I want to use it for sharing, and I'm disappointed that my friend bobbybobob is gone, among others.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

my friend bobbybobob is gone

Wait, really?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yep, banned for calling out some BS that's happening on here, such as the removal of a post by himself that explains that

"[removed]" means a mod censor removed the post, and "[deleted]" means the user did.

He thought it was helpful for users to know this, and actually so do I, but apparently his protesting the removal of this information is what led to him getting banned. I'm sorry but this is looking like the censorship of totalitarianism.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

bobbobbybob[F] 1 insightful - 0 fun - 2 hours ago

Do you mean banned from a sub? It looks like he was still around recently, and I didn't see a ban notice in the mod log.

[–][deleted]  (31 children)

[deleted]

    [–]christnmusicreleases 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    No, all the win sites are run by the same Zionist shills who run Voat and Poal. They also have the same banning procedure.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah that's what I thought.

    [–]bobbobbybob[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    was neutral ground

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (26 children)

    Interesting. They're apparently funded by at least one relatively wealthy person. Let me think, why would the 1% want to fund a propaganda site?:

    https://communities.win/c/AskWin/p/12hkd5YlL3/x/c/4DyLxPP6a8p

    [–][deleted]  (25 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]christnmusicreleases 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

      No, Ruqqus, would be the right counterpart, win isn't in the equation here.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

      Seems that:

      Win is typical right-wing propaganda of the type seen on Fox and previously on TheDonald, and includes a QAnon group

      Ruqqus is extreme right-wing racism and ex-TheDonald

      Gab is purely disinformation for alt-right QBoogaloos

      Parler is famous for Nazi groups and Boogaloos

      [–]christnmusicreleases 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

      Ruqqus allows all political views, but is right-leaning, and after voat.co died it became flooded with shills. It's still pretty normal, though, because it has a lot of regular users.

      Saidit is all over the spectrum but the left seem to maintain leadership which is normal for any center-leaning site. I think the general userbase is becoming increasingly right-wing, not in an extreme way, but more moderate conservatives (right and center-right).

      (The left increasingly claims to be center, and vies for places of power in administration, while the right is becoming more and more popular with average users, particularly since Biden was rigged in)

      Win, Voat and Poal are Mossad/Hasbara fronts, with Israelis pretending to be far-right American extremists, and a percentage of real right-wingers in the mix. They regularly make anti-semitic posts and Nazi propaganda, and most of these are created by the ADL to smear the right. I know their meme/artistic style, it's very recognizable. Parler looks like it is among their sites as well (less obvious though) and their server "attack" appears to have been deliberate and an inside job.

      Gab is the real deal, it's Christian conservative right, but I hate their Twitter-like interface so I rarely use it.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      OK - but I don't think anyone who is a 'centrist' or 'left' would think Saidit is anything other than fully right-wing. I can think of only one or two people on this site who argue like I do about the 'right', and almost all of the posts are 'right-wing'.

      First I've heard of the potential Mossad fronts, and I'll look into that. The IDF are definitely active in parts of Reddit.

      I'll have a closer look at Gab.

      [–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

      Win is typical right-wing propaganda of the type seen on Fox and previously on TheDonald, and includes a QAnon group

      Ah, the zionist type. Yes, they do tend to operate 'both sides'.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

      It would seem that there are professionals in Russia, Israel and China who - rather than push an obvious agenda - just try to push polarizing content, to get people to engage and fight over that content. The overall benefit of this is to help polarize general discourses and by extension polarize political discourses. Authoritarian politicians and governments benefit from this (for reasons that hopefully do not bear mentioning, even if this may require an explanation on Saidit, where some fo the users who wouldn't recognize shills nonetheless want to call anyone on the 'left' or 'center' a shill.). For example, disinformation campaigns are - arguably - run by 'shills', however we define them. Those campaigns receive funding from people who want to push propaganda and disinformation.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]christnmusicreleases 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        "Ruqqus is an open-source platform for online communities, free of censorship and moderator abuse by design."

        The white supremacists you are referring to are Zionist Jew shills, and didn't move in until Voat imploded.

        The benefits of Ruqqus are very clear: you can't have your posts censored, they are just moved back to general if the guildmaster doesn't want it in his guild. You're able to maintain ten guilds at once. If you want to create more, you can abandon a current guild and create a new one, the old one will go unmoderated (thus preventing abuses of power but allowing unlimited potential creation). If you're kicked from a guild, you can make one on the same topic with a slightly different name. There are no post limits. There are no rate limits. You can block users and guilds if you want to ignore certain content, or set filters in the settings if you don't like politics, NSFW or other things. It's pretty much the best codebase to allow free speech for all sides of the political spectrum. If you want to live in an echo chamber, you can. If you want dissenting opinion you can have that as well. It's all there, everything. And it's not managed by big tech or an intel front. I hope that some day Saidit has the same degree of free speech here, from far left, to center, to far right.

        [–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Ruqqus a site for white supremacists

        It's hard to believe people still think that's a thing. Where are you getting this information from?

        [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Don't try the whataboutism on me.

        If you're interested, look at the responses, including: "That...sounds suspicious to be honest."

        (And don't tell me what to do.)

        [–]Node 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        That site has a rule against "hate speech..."

        [–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        "We of righteousness"... Leave the victimhood for the intersectionalists. You sound no better than them. Grow a fucking backbone and stop whining.

        [–]bobbobbybob[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        What should I do? Just delete any posts I deem too extreme?

        that's what tam started doing

        [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        We were here long before you were. Sieg Heil!

        [–]LesbianOutlaw 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

        Not everyone who's trans is "far-left trash." Being trans is a medical condition / body modification choice, not a political viewpoint. That's like saying everyone who gets a tattoo must vote Democrat.

        [–]bobbobbybob[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        trans is a mental disorder

        [–]Node 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Everyone who gets a tattoo is a degenerate, however they vote. Body mutilation and defacement is anti-conservative, which kind of makes it political.

        [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Oh, man - all the MAGAs with tats. Icky.

        [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Of course they are. But I forgot the "nutjob" qualifier in front.