If Biden Wins Say Goodbye to Saidit

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[–]JasonCarswell 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (20 children)

Decentralize SaidIt

/u/magnora7, /u/d3rr, etc.,

What can we do to help make this happen?

If it means create more proxy sites (or whatever you call them), is there any chance you can create tutorial sub for non-coders that covers all the bases from start to federated backup?

[–]fschmidt 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (19 children)

Saidit looks like a basket case. They don't allow mods to moderate and they are too lazy to work to avoid censorship.

https://old.reddit.com/r/nonmorons/comments/jtuzay/is_there_a_reddit_alternative_that_doesnt_suck/

If I do finance this, I will make sure that it is federated.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

Repeating from your link:

Is there a reddit alternative that doesn't suck?

By reddit alternative, I mean a social platform for forums (subs).

By "doesn't suck" I mean:

  1. Free speech. Forums/subs and users only banned for violating the law, spam, or doxxing.

  2. Unlimited moderation. Mods own forums/subs and can do whatever they want.

  3. No site-wide moderation like reddit making users wait between posts if they have low karma.

  4. Easy to create forums/subs. No endless waiting (like on ruqqus).

  5. Functional search.

  6. No down-voting or option to remove down-voting from forums/subs. Down-voting is just a way for the moronic masses to harass free thinkers.

I have looked at a number of alternatives and haven't found any meeting these requirements.

I already see a couple issues. 1) Free speech and 2) unlimited moderation are already at odds. Either the mod will censor the speech or they won't.

I also see pros and cons to all those points except 5) functional search, which would only be wonderful.

I have ideas on your points, but they require coding.

Before we consider overhauling the SaidIt code or others similar, I wonder if it might be easier to adopt an existing very popular, stable, secure, high-feature, federate-able, opensource forum code and re-skinning it to appear like Reddit/SaidIt with most of the same functionality?

If we could build something akin to the Mastodon federated model then there could be countless forums with their own rules that range from limited to free speech. IMO who ever is hosting it gets ultimate say, above and beyond the mods and users, and sadly this power could and would be abused. Fortunately, in a federated system, content could be distributed, backed up, forked, etc. (I think).

IMO, there needs to be 3 kinds of subs: topics, communities, and feeds. Preferably with metatags. Ideally topics would be well categorized and controlled with democratic feedback. Communities could be random and chaotic. Feeds would be automated to follow content creators. Empty, stagnant, or rudderless subs can be reclaimed via a process to be determined democratically.

IMO, there needs to be 4 voting options, ideally all on a scale of 0-10: like, dislike, insightful, fun. Obviously you can't like and dislike simultaneously. No fancy weighting and dislikes don't subtract from likes nor vice versa. We should be able to sort our content by metatags, topics, and voting options, as well as the typical date, hot, etc.

Instead of cross-posting it would be better to have the option to be posted in a single sub or have the post s-linked in multiple other relevant subs but with a single conversation.

All of these democratic terms of service processes would be wise to organize into some kind of general consensus to cover the types, include variants, and be updated. For example, copyleft has the Creative Commons with their many versions with variants and room for more.

All of these ideas should be flexible enough so that if another type of sub or vote or whatever comes up it should be easy to add or remove in the next update (this includes database management).

Ideally anyone with a PC should be able to host a federated instance. Not only should it be simple to install and administrate, it should be easy to backup and share and sync the database, via torrent in bulk and/or sharding in blocks or whatever, perhaps in a blockchain. A crypto/rewards system would be nice but that's a whole other layer ripe for corruption and exploitation. IMO, better to let the users do that among themselves.

I suppose folks might prefer phone apps to web pages. Prepare for that I guess - and prepare to be censored/blocked/banned from corporate app stores and git vaults.

That's enough dreaming for now. I could go on and on and on but I'm getting tired.

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

Thanks for the feedback. I am a programmer myself but I don't have the time to do this. But at least I can understand the programming concepts involved. I won't bother looking into this deeply unless I decide to go forward with funding this.

I didn't emphasize this in my post, but I strongly support a good federated system. No one knows what the ideal software should do, but if the data is federated then people can try different ideas. A key thing is that a strong search system must work across the federation.

If I do go forward, I will make a forum to discuss the details. You can present your ideas there, but me and the programmer will have the final say.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

/u/d3rr and /u/magnora7, I don't know if you saw my ideas two comments up, but they might be worth noting as some fundamentals if you were to ever consider starting over/migrating/evolving/whatever.

Just watching a Styx livestream video it suddenly occurred to me that there's a potentially super simple solution that's been staring me in the face. No, not Mr. 666, I mean a concept. Perhaps Mr. Moneybags Investor /u/fschmidt can run the numbers on this as an investment.

First, it's common knowledge that in addition to boatloads in advertisements YouTube takes 30% of all superchats (while soft censoring denying ads and super chats to "objectionable" content and/or simply shadow banning them).

Styx mirroring his content across four, stated that he already had too many platforms to investigate more (Mastodon, etc.).

Here's my pitch: Not just a news aggregator forum like SaidIt, but also 1) a platform aggregator (some kind of GUI to set up bots that will automatically post their content linked to the various diverse platforms - super simple for the content creators with better things to do, yet still has deep optional customization), and 2) an income aggregator (some kind of income accounting and management system, including as many currencies and cryptocurrencies as is necessary - critically transparent and verifiable at every level). These 3 aggregators could be developed separately but designed to cross integrate or be combined which to me seems like a security risk.

Naturally, they would be prime targets so federating and security would be even more critically essential than ever. Here's the best part: Every content creator with an account would need to host their own little corner of the federated blockchain, though it would make more sense to keep their financial stuff on a private server, they could have a second server that is more robust and publicly active to actually participate. A Raspberry Pi 400 is only ~$70-$100, is extremely portable, and could be their private wallet with backup options. A Pi might not make the best robust public server, or maybe it might enough if there are enough out there. Or maybe a non-corporate-OS phone is good enough.

I could go on with my science fiction, but that's the nutshell idea. Of course it should be open-source. And of course the percentage cut that the 3 aggregators would get could be discussed in the forums and such. Typically agents get 10-20% which is still much better than YouTube, though perhaps 3-5% is simply enough, leaving more to be taken by those who are federation mirrors and/or IPFS archives. I'll let you do the math.

Imagine... a triumvirate federation.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Add one year of effort for every 3 words concerning financial transactions :) Sounds pretty alright though.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Sounds good, go for it!

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[removed]

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    The web is. We will have to form underground communities which will be labeled terrorists of the state which they'll use real and fake terrorism to prove their points.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Time to wash your mouth with some soap! though I think your whole body needs washing and you'll feel a different engine! https://youtu.be/53TsYx3MTHY?t=36 (Paaaah cried Gordon and angrily left off steam making James very dirty) Your a very naughty engine!

      [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      You've been banned for repeatedly dragging discussion down the pyramid of debate

      [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      It might be worth creating a sub to discuss Next-Gen-Forum building, policies, federating, searching, democracy, etc. I would hope it's FLOSS too. I don't code, so my say is moot.

      [–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      Saidit looks like a basket case.

      A "basket case" compared to what? Do you have an ideal

      They don't allow mods to moderate and they are too lazy to work to avoid censorship.

      Do you have evidence to support this claim?

      If I do finance this, I will make sure that it is federated.

      You should probably hurry up and finance your own federated version.

      It will take some time to build up the user base.

      Best of luck with that.

      [–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

      A "basket case" compared to what? Do you have an ideal

      https://old.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/jtuy2d/is_there_a_reddit_alternative_that_doesnt_suck/

      Do you have evidence to support this claim?

      https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/6s3g/rule_4/ https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/65k1/we_are_being_forced_by_our_server_company_to/

      You should probably hurry up and finance your own federated version.

      I don't expect this to be profitable anytime soon, so I would finance this as a kind of charity, so no rush.

      [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      I'd guess the rush is to beat the censorship and to build a base to speak truth about power while still somewhat effective, etc. After the totalitarians have everything locked down there's no point in creating a freedom app for a handful of people locked out of the system.

      [–]fschmidt 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      If Biden wins then America is finished. And that would happen before anything can be developed.

      But the point is that a good distributed system will win in the end regardless of how long it takes. So no rush, let's get this right. I will decide how to go forward this week.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [removed]

        [–]fschmidt 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        The question is, will fraud vitiate the supreme court?