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[–]southpaw 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I do see what you are saying about an echo chamber vs a sub that engages in actual debate. When you are not in an echo chamber, it allows for discussion and a free flow of ideas. It also allows your opinion to be challenged and force you to see issues from another angle. However, there are also some subs that exist to allow for the camaraderie of a shared experience. As you pointed out on Reddit, r/actuallesbians was taken over by a lot of transwomen/supporters and banned anyone who didn’t agree with their belief that lesbians should fully embrace trans women as actual women. The mods over there strongly discouraged discussions about periods and other women’s issues, and would ban people who said they didn’t want to have sex with someone who still had a penis attached to them. The “refugees” from that sub made a new sub which was lost in The Great Ban Wave. Understandably, that sub on Saidit, doesn’t want to repeat history, so they made a rule that you have to be a female-born lesbian to participate in that sub. While that might sound like an echo chamber, there is still debate amongst the participants in that sub over issues that affect them. For instance, some users on that sub may support trans women 100% but disagree with TRAs violent bullying, while others may support a transperson’s right to transition but not their acceptance in women’s sports/prisons/shelters, whereas there are others who do not accept transwomen at all. From the outside, it may just look like they all just hate transwomen, but the topic is more nuanced than that because of their history and lived experiences as lesbians. Lesbians make up less than 2% of the population, and it is easy for their voices to get drowned out, especially in this current political climate. Also, since they are such a small group, it is nice to meet other women who may have a similar experiences as you, especially if you don’t know any other lesbians.

[–]SaidOverRed[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Uh, I already know all of that wall of text.

I challenge the relevance, though, because you said 'that sub' but then continue to talk about what I assume is /s/ lesbians. But I never mentioned that subseddit. I only mentioned /s/ GenderCritical. I suppose if you want to address my examples, you may refrain a reply of the above in the context of /s/ GenderCritical. I'd like that.

I am purposely not linking heavily to these examples, because they are just that: examples. This is a much larger, site-wide issue just some small problem on a handful of subs. If I am to actually use this site, I have to know where I can speak openly and where I shouldn't bother posting since the wrong-think will just get me banned.

Sanity check: yup I mentioned "An example of this on reddit is" and "An example of this behavior on saidit".

[–]southpaw 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I don’t know what you want. I don’t go on s/GenderCritical and you posted this on s/Saidit where everyone can see it. If you want to know specifically about GenderCritcal bans, ask them. I gave you an example of how “echo chambers” are formed, and since you seemed to know about r/ActualLesbians I used that situation. People gave you well thought out responses and you DID NOT use the Pyramid of Debate. Instead, you wrote a lot to try and sound smart and came off rather crass. If you want answers to questions and to encourage “Enlightenment Thinking” be respectful and use tact. If you are wondering why you get banned, maybe it is because you comment to people in a arrogant and ill-mannered way. And yes, you did come onto the s/lesbians board and post some nonsense.

[–]SaidOverRed[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then re-read the OP. I don't care about how echo chambers are formed, doubly since you didn't tell me any specifics I didn't already know (which I told you). This has to do with why they have no warnings and why they are mixed in with more normal subs.

Alright since the https://saidit.net/static/PyramidDebate.jpg orange-level adhominems ("try and sound smart", "crass") and yellow-level tone responses ("be respectful" "use tact" "ill-mannered") won't stop, whilst simultaneously insisting I'm not using the pyramid of debate, I'll take this slow on the off-chance you do not realize that you have one attempt at a purple-level refutation ('I like echo chambers for their comraderie') with an attempt at a teal-level counter-argument about a statistical niche for echo chambers. This attempted counter-argument was misplaced, because you were simply arguing for the same thing that I was, ie "I am fine with allowing echo chambers on saidit", which I tried to redirect you away from talking about simply "having restrictive subs" to "about being able to discern what is a normal place".

If you'd like me to readdress the camaraderie part, I will be happy to do that. If anything, my suggestion about standardized 'keep out' warning signs or /ec/ instead of /s/ should only reinforce what I'm saying: separate places for camaraderie that statistically low-number groups might want to be sure of. But gaslighting me about not having a central point or refuting others is not okay. I am pretty good about staying on topic, but I will not apologize for seeing connections to said topics others may not.