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[–][deleted] 23 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

We have tried. You weren't around for that bit. The really irritating part is that you all keep offering the same arguments over and over again and oh, that's not enough, you have to act like it was clever. Any woman hanging out in feminist fora for long enough starts feeling like she's listening to a broken record. And it's not like arguing with you makes anything better in the f2f world/ meatspace when we keep seeing our rights doing a one step forward two steps back thing everywhere. Hell, there are researchers who think the recent turn to populism across several Western countries is an indirect response to women gaining more freedom. They're probably not wrong. I'm 46. I don't think I will live to see the day when men stop seeing everything as a zero-sum game and stop envying others who have less than they do.

[–]voi_che_sapete 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've sunk many hours into arguing with men. I think it's very worthwhile sometimes and have helped many change their minds over time (as well as had my own perspective sharpened), but goddamnit, I need a break sometimes.

I realize a lot of men are very well-meaning and respectful but goddamned if the ones that brigade in with incredibly tired and often-refuted arguments ad infinitum - acting totally entitled to my time, energy, and hours of research and thinking - don't make me regret every well-meaning stab at discourse I've ever made.

Hanging out with likeminded people can open your eyes as much as hanging out with people who you disagree with because you can go deeper into the nuances.

[–]taibo14 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

meatspace when we keep seeing our rights doing a one step forward two steps back thing everywhere.

You're actually delusional. What universe do you live in?