There's some censorship going on in the newly popular feminist subs and it needs to be openly addressed.

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[–]Tom_Bombadil 20 insightful - 6 fun20 insightful - 5 fun21 insightful - 6 fun -  (9 children)

Personally I feel you should be able to comment but I don't believe anyone owes you debate.

Good point, and before i continue; Welcome to the free-speech fray!!! ;-)

Every participant of a sub which has been banned from Reddit is a direct victim of censorship, and has a very real stake in opposing censorship of any kind.

Support for free speech is even more important in this current era of internet censorship.

If you support free speech, then you must be in support of all free speech. Particularly support for the free speech of those groups who are saying things that you despise, and violently oppose.
It is not possible to support some free speech, and not others.

Supporting censorship eventually leads to eliminating exposure to potentially relevant ideas. Eliminating exposure to ideas is the goal of censorship.

Opposing ideas with better ideas is the optimal solution.

Conversely, no one is suggesting that anyone should be forced to listen to the hostile words of repeated individual harassment.
Everyone is free to block individual commentators, or unsubscribe to entire subs on your own personal account.

Edit: whatever happened to "if you don't like something don't look at it"? Women don't constantly try to infiltrate male centric subs. This is something men on reddit do and it's fucking annoying.

I don't frequent the female subs so I can't confirm, but this is probably a true statement. It's important to consider the timing of this banning event. Reddit very likely banned the various subs with the intention of creating conflict elsewhere.

Let's avoid taking the bait, and endure in spite of Reddit's scheming bullshit.

Please take some time to let the dust settle, and things will quickly improve. No doubt, there are more than a few women here who have put up with plenty of bullshit, and are tough enough to push back against a small group of nasty harassers. They'll get bored and go away over time.

Now is the time to champion free speech more than ever.

Welcome, to the free-speech fray.

[–]goodbyeplanet 42 insightful - 2 fun42 insightful - 1 fun43 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

they'll get bored and go away over time

You assume they view us as people. They do not. The internet pro-male ideologue as we experience them is usually a male suffering from psychosis and delusions of grandeur. He is convinced that women are objects, and women who center women are simply in need of breaking in. They will do anything to "teach us a lesson"; look at the incel crime sprees, the rape of lesbians, and the number of men who want to renounce women's rights.

We do not have the privilege of assuming harmlessness when our beliefs are the sworn enemy of every cumbrain who uses gendered jingoism to escape his own flaws. We are trying to wake women up from being willingly abused by men and abusive men don't like that at all.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

You assume they view us as people. They do not.

Can you be certain? Almost everyone went to school with members of the opposite sex. It's difficult to imagine they forgot you're human.

I agree that there are some who will ceaselessly and mercilessly agitate anyone who responds to their foolishness.

He is convinced that women are objects, and women who center women are simply in need of breaking in. They will do anything to "teach us a lesson"; look at the incel crime sprees, and the number of men who want to renounce women's rights.

These guys exist, but I suspect they're disproportionally overrepresented; similar to transwomen (men).

There's plenty of evidence of divide and conquer activity in these crazy times. Forces are aggressively polarising group differences to create internal conflict.

Nothing will be solved if we don't have the freedom of thought and communication to fully articulate and address each groups concerns.

We are trying to wake women up from being willingly abused by men and abusive men don't like that at all.

I'm not your enemy.

The world is full of problems. We need all the help we can get.

[–]goodbyeplanet 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

can you be certain

The Men's Rights subreddit had a poll about "at what age did you realize women don't deserve rights" yesterday, and dehumanizing women has historically been and still is a keystone ideology for patriarchial belief structures, so yes.

anyone who responds

You must understand that they do not get off on responses. They get off on validation for their posts on external male communities, and the general spirit of demotivating ebil feminazis. It's not about us at all, and as such our behaviour does not change theirs.

disproportionate

Yes, but these men are drawn to us like flies to honey. That's the point. We don't hate men, since men like r/gendercriticalguys exist and are cool. But normal men don't seek out women to harass, these guys do. It's just part of the Rad Fem Experience.

D&C

Yeah I know. But women's freedom to discuss women's issues is essential. We fought long and hard to be viewed as people, and are not going to give that up. We will be content when women have, at the very least, equal say and equal power worldwide.

Have you seen the misogyny on the internet? The list of subs they didn't ban? They are influental, and outnumber us by the thousands.

Gender dynamics is, I would say, a far more critical issue in the long term for the survival of our species than the politics of the US, although the collapse of the latter would negatively impact the former. Personally I'd say it's too late, but my other political takes are usually reserved for non-feminist accounts due to risk of doxxing.

Freedom of communication

As I said elsewhere, I am all for opening the sub for general questions once our numbers are back to normal. But right now, there's maybe 1 radical feminist capable of answering questions for every 1000 questions.

I am not your enemy

I'd go to say that any man who does not call out the influence of those men is complicit, as he still benefits from the system.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Gender dynamics is, I would say, a far more critical issue in the long term for the survival of our species than the politics of the US, although the collapse of the latter would negatively impact the former.

IMO this US destabilization is ultimately about depopulation and eugenics, so these are interrelated.

I'd go to say that any man who does not call out the influence of those men is complicit, as he still benefits from the system.

The accusations feel a bit premature.

  • Which individuals (presumably men) should be called out?
  • Why are they specifically called out?
  • What is the proposed outcome?
  • How will the proposed outcome improve the situation?

These specifics should be outlined (at a minimum) as a baseline for discussion.

[–]BobQuixote 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'd go to say that any man who does not call out the influence of those men is complicit, as he still benefits from the system.

I was tracking until this. Give me a target and I'll make the decision myself. If I disagree with you, I can understand the charge of complicity. But if I'm supposedly complicit for being ignorant then I don't want what you're selling.

[–]goodbyeplanet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not a question of complicit because of ignorance. But there's plenty of men who see the issues in front of them and elect to ignore it, or assume it is a female-specific behaviour because females are some sort of incomprehensible Other, while benefitting from that behaviour.

[–]not-a-neckbeard 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Errr... see, this is egocentric here. You're essentially denying a phenomena x doesn't exist because you can't imagine everyone doing x. In your mind, unless everyone does something, then that act must not exist. ?? Logic?? No, you're not the enemy. But no one accused you as such. It's possible to talk about abstract ideas without involving oneself personally.

[–]BettysBitterButter 34 insightful - 2 fun34 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You can have free-speech without coddling everyone who wants to come in and shout "I like turtles!" in a space where a productive and nuanced discussion about something else is going on. That's why there are subs. You wouldn't go into an "I like turtles" sub and insist on taking up space talking about 1964 Mustang brake pads so why would you go into a "radical feminist" sub and insist on obliviating about how men can be feminists, too, or whatever else that space isn't for.

And assuming people are acting in good faith, look at it like this: you have to take the 101 courses before you insist on spouting your opinions in the graduate-level courses. Far too often people (and very often men) sashay into women's discussions and suck all of the air out of the room, distracting from the actual purpose of the discussion.

I'm totally fine if the sub is heavily moderated.

Anyone who wants to have similar discussions without heavy moderation is totally free to start their own sub and run it however they want to, aren't they? Especially right at this moment where the GC sub doesn't have 46,000 members and isn't any kind of monopoly. If super permissive, light moderation is what people want then that sub will attract more participants.

That said: I doubt this is going to be the ultimate home of GC community building or discussion. I think GC needs its own platform. There are already far too many red herrings and people trying to tell women how to talk right.

[–]igneciph 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That said: I doubt this is going to be the ultimate home of GC community building or discussion. I think GC needs its own platform. There are already far too many red herrings and people trying to tell women how to talk right.

Agreed. Some of these commenters think they're being real slick about it though, even though it's as obvious as neon lights. They forget we've seen it all before. It's just another form of censorship, really. Flooding a sub with a thousand determined trolls who 'just wanna ask questions' and repeat the same set of asinine one-liners ad nauseum without having the most basic understanding of what the sub is even about is still censorship if you have no capacity to moderate their tedious bullshit out or stop it from dominating every thread, and that's exactly why they want the ability to do it in the first place. It's almost never in good faith. That's why there were separate debate subs to filter them into in the first place.