Introducing /s/PyramidPractice

submitted by comments from self.SaidIt

I've created /s/PyramidPractice now that my account is 14 days old, huzzah!

This should be a fun sub that hopefully improves our skills with the pyramid of debate too. The purpose of the sub is to practice using the pyramid of debate on topics that are suggested for discussion in the sub. Topics can be serious or silly. The aim is to get as high as possible on the pyramid of debate in the discussion. There is a bit more detail about discussion format in the sub sidebar.

If you like the idea, I've started a first practice topic, "Dishonesty in the Media," come try it out!

eta: I was censored here on SaidIt without explanation

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[–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (19 children)

So you say a sub to practice what the entire site is supposed to be about?

That is like having a section of the soccer field where the rules will actually be enforced...

That said, maybe we should all keen in mind these great rundowns of productive thinking and dialogue as well:

https://archive.is/6Fmko https://archive.is/cVkoy

I kindof think they all go together with the pyramid.

That said, here is also my list of users who have so far failed my basic check for interest in actual discussion, or who exhibit other traits of un-realness, in case anyone cares what I think, or would like to save themselves some time finding it out for themselves the annoying way.

JasonCarswell (15266) 14 days ago

Niggerporfavor (31) 13 days ago

Nalukai (315) 13 days ago

The_Lear_Bluce_Ree (1) 13 days ago

kokolokoNightcrawler (264) 10 days ago

Jesus (6773) 9 days ago

feynman432 (24) 2 days ago

astronautrob (84) 1 day ago

beermeem (295) 8 minutes ago

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

You couldn't handle constructive criticism, so since then I've generally steered clear of you.

Since then I've learned you've blocked my responses like a child - so even though I've told you a couple times you're book is now on my shopping list (now a third time), you still won't ever know. Maybe someone can tell him. (Also I'm poor so it might be a while unless someone wants to buy his book for me. I'm very curious as he's clever but hyper-sensitive and has limits, as we all do.)

I can't speak to all the names on his list, but I'm honoured to be in the same league as /u/Jesus. I also enjoy /u/kokolokoNightcrawler, /u/feynman432, /u/astronautrob, /u/beermeem for the most part - and in the off chance I don't agree with their comment I certainly don't block them. (I apologize if I don't remember interacting with the others.) Soon enough, he'll have blocked everyone and will be just talking to and agreeing with himself - the way he obviously likes it.

Crazy all those points, as if it means something.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

What the fuck!?

I failed to make the list???

I failed agaaaaaaiiiiiiin!!! ;-)

[–]fred_red_beans 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Labeling anyone who disagrees or is critical of you a shill is not an argument.

Do you honestly think all these users whom you are calling a shill are paid or receive other favortism/benefit to participate on saidit?

[–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

"Labeling anyone who disagrees or is critical of you a shill is not an argument."

shill tactic - weaponized conflaction

nowhere have i said or done what you state here, "everyone who disagrees must be a shill" I never said that and you put those words in my mouth, which is some very manipulative garbage.

I do believe there are a ton of paid shills on saidit and every such site, it is a proven fact, and if you are unaware of this, you are basically about as savy to the internet as a toddler and should probably read a lot more and stfu until you have done so.

I checked back in after 3 weeks of posting and not one response to anything I wrote passed my "live human" test, fwiw. Not one. I basically have to instruct every commenter why their response is worthless garbage, and then wonder if everyone in the world is stupid, insane or being paid to act that way.

But at this point I do not spend much time wondering, read my 4 books and say something intelligent about them or get ouf of my face.

[–]fred_red_beans 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

By labeling others comments as "shill tactic", you are insinuating that you believe they are a shill. You have used the same verbiage is response to posts to your list of users above.

As we're here on pyramid practice, I'll help you out with the pyramid of debate: https://saidit.net/static/debatepyramid.jpg

What you are doing is ad hominem or name calling.

not one response to anything I wrote passed my "live human" test, fwiw. Not one.

So the users on Saidit are not only shills, but bots as well?

No one is interested in your reasons why you think their response is worthless garbage. If you think their response is so, just don't respond. Or post an actual argument, rather than just saying "shill tactic, shill tactic!".

read my 4 books and say something intelligent about them or get ouf of my face

Really? Grow up.

[–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

a shill tactic strongly implies shilling, you seem to think this is somehow illogical thinking

lol

shill tactics, continued, more of same - make all discussion personal, redirected back on the actual human being trying to make a point

that is all you are doing, and it is obvious to anyone with a brain not getting paid to be an asshat.

Also,

shill tactic - conflation, you try to put the words in my mouth that I say all users on saidit are shills when I do not say that, I only point out in case after case after case that obvious shill tactics are being used

and since shill tactics are all mechanical, and shills coordinate their responses with automated softwares, and since the summary effect of their work is to drive away actual humans, and ai does exist to create automated nonsensical responses

yes, a human taking part in that is already one full step into the being a robot themselves, or a drone, working against their own genetics for the interest of some borg-like entity.

Or I can just call you what you are, after investigation and a real attempt to communicate, which is you are a cunty douchebag.

Of course, this is not the same as just calling you a cunty douchebag, this is the summary of numerous points and analysis, which is self-evident to any actual human reader.

[–]danuker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

my "live human" test

You should use the "Friend" tool.

Whenever I suspect an account could be "really" human, and if they post content I am interested in, I go to their account, and click the green "+friend" button under their account name.

Later, I browse using the "Friends" meta-sub. f they post content that I enjoy, I keep them there. Browsing through there is a breath of fresh air.

If they post irrelevant/un-actionable/waste-of-time/garbage/spam content, they get the boot.

So far I have two such "friends". One is you, which I found in spite of the noise on this site. Another is a guy you engaged in conversation with, which I saw on the Friends -> Comments tab.

I want to thank you for your true content freely available on your website. I will donate to you as soon as I get an income again (but don't hold your breath - I live in a second world country and am incredibly lazy, on top of the current economy). I will promote you via word-of-mouth to my friends, though.

P.S. Instead of "shill", I think "actor" is a better term, for the way you use it. - they play a role different from their genuine self - they use scripts - they distract the masses using fantasies of warped ideals - they are paid to act many times, though not always

Shills, at least according to Urban Dictionary, try to sell something. This may be the case when, say, Big Tech tries to hide its surveillance (PR), but not when the covert agent's goal is to sow discord or drown out communities through spam/garbage content.

[–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

fair enough, I can consider this.

Thank you for the kind words, it goes far on this particular day.

sharing a link to my site and books is just as valuable to me as money, as far as whether or not you are my friend, maybe more so. Still waiting for that second book sale lol. There are many treasures in my meme collections though that I gathered from far and wide....further study will be rewarded.

You are right, shill is generally advertising, sock puppets, agents, are maybe more appropriate. But maybe it is all just shilling too, meaning they are not here to promote their own viewpoint, but someone else's. Or maybe it is their viewpoint also by coincidence, but they are operating to advance an operational agenda.

I guess I wonder if at some point all advertising is just propaganda, everything that is not an individual person deciding what they think should be said right now, whether it be to sell shoes or convince a different country to have a race war, is shilling one and the same. I can see both sides, but the alternative to shill would be to call everyone an agent or sock puppet, so in a way the langauge itself fails to account for what has developed in history, where there are so many people being paid to manage opinion for institutions, actual human beings try to say something are difficult to find.

Maybe look up the "dead internet" meme, if you can find it. Some say that it used to be easy to find people, and certain niches where authentic people were still dominting the conversation, but now it is almost impossible.

+friend

[–]danuker 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Still waiting for that second book sale lol

Sorry to hear that :(

I want to give you some advice.

First of all, your websites should feature prominent links to the place to buy books. Perhaps something like: "Want to support my work? Buy a book of mine here." below the Orwell quote, in a visible rectangle (check out "call-to-action buttons"). A little design goes a long way.

The current links in "NEWS FLASH:" are quite low on the page, and look like regular text part of the article.

Also, I'd shorten the profile here to, say, 50 words, so the books are visible without needing to scroll down.

Second, perhaps look into more avenues of advertisement where your target audience might be around:

  • Reddit (perhaps they still want your money in spite of banning you?)
  • 4chan, 8kun (formerly 8chan)
  • physical ads: newspaper/classifieds, flyers - perhaps near train stations (people who use trains like privacy).
  • DuckDuckGo: https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/company/advertising-and-affiliates/
  • Anonymous Ads
  • FB, Google (if you want to feed the beasts, and if you get ROI? but I doubt your target audience looks at oligopoly ads).

I'd invest a book's worth of cost (or some other small amount of your choice at first), and see what they bring. Don't keep investing if they bring no visits.

all advertising is just propaganda

Yes it is, but some people might be actively looking to spend money for something, but not sure what. If the advert is well-targeted, and if it's respectful to the user, then the user might like the recommendation.

I usually block all third-party requests on a website for privacy reasons, but if I like the website, I might let ads through to both support the site, and perhaps see something interesting.

Edit: lists require an empty line before them.

[–]comments[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

So you say a sub to practice what the entire site is supposed to be about?

I think there's value in setting aside a space explicitly to just practice this, especially on topics that aren't serious or that we otherwise might not even care about that much. Usually the purpose of conversations on SaidIt seems to be primarily focused on the topic, rather than being primarily focused on practicing raising the pyramid of debate.

If it's helpful as practice hopefully that will bleed over into the rest of the site, and people will more naturally actively try to raise the pyramid level of debate in a way they're already comfortable with, rather than just trying to follow the rules or not get caught dragging the pyramid level of debate down.

It seemed like a fun and helpful idea when I had it, so I went ahead and made the sub. Now it's there for whoever wants to try it when they do.

[–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

fair enough

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    If he's blocked you I don't think you'll get through.

    "Intellectual narcissist" has an interesting ring to it. Would make for a great username.

    " Another fact is: You won't change my inner core no matter how hard you try, because i actually am truly honest. "

    I can identify. And if I remain honest I can see and admit when I'm wrong. It makes all of life soooo much easier.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Why are you so fucking angry at everybody all the time. I've tried interacting politely, doing conversation and my conclusion is there is just no discussing anything with you. It seems I am not alone in this.

    I think if you are looking to make a career out of your website, you are going about it the wrong way. I for one don't read books that are written by people who go out of their way to insult others. I think you will soon discover that the more you do it, the fewer people will want to read you.

    And the fact you do not realize this speaks volumes about your mental capacity.

    [–]danuker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    1. How do you know he is angry? He might be perfectly calm behind the keyboard.
    2. He did not insult without reason. Here are reasons: https://saidit.net/s/Introductions/comments/4r0l/hey_the_censorship_from_the_highest_levels_of/hnuu

    [–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

    My debating skills are awesome, you bitch!

    I'm just kidding. ;-)