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Saidit.net - 6/4/2018 - New terms of service updates, ban on vendors
submitted 10 months ago * by magnora7 from self.SaidIt
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[–]NuttinBuddaHoundDawg 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (8 children)
Why demonize "Vendors" ?? Is there something wrong or illegal, with being a vendor of a product or service? Maybe you should swap the word "Business" there, and ban discussion on any type of commercial business whatsoever?
Again, selling a product or service online, is not illegal. Reddit WAY over-reacted apparently to some action by Congress. Would you mind explaining what has changed, was there a specific change in the law preventing any discussion of vending or trading?
The claim of Liability seems like a huge red herring. Let's say an Automobile enthusiast joins a forum to discuss restoration of Old Cars. Those people use vendors to buy, sell, and swap old car parts.. Those parts are then used to repair antique cars, which then could possibly drive and kill someone on the road ... Is saidiit now scared of being sued in this situation? Banning any link or discussion of vendors seems ridiculous.
We're discussing and vending, herbal supplements. There is a huge online community of people who talk various food supplements, herbs and botanicals. Not just kratom, ginseng, akumma seeds or Blue Lotus extract. There are bodybuilding people, sports nutrition, etc. All of these supplements are legal. Including Kratom. There is no discussion of marijuana vendors, or even legal cannabis stores, on the kratom boards.
Are you basing this on the "State and Local Law" situation? Could someone please explain that. IF the City Council, in Bumfuck Alabama, declares that wearing a certain type of hat is illegal - Does that mean the Internet / must comply with the Local law in Bumfuck? And so, you're banning Hat vendors?
SAIDIT had an opportunity - to be different than Reddit, to stand on principle. This decision could have waited - Is there an imminent threat of legal action? I'd like to know what prompted the decision.
How many people will remain here? We can "discuss News" all day on Reddit, Facebook, and other forums that have WAY more interesting people to talk with. Thank you.
[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago* (7 children)
Perhaps we will modify the rules to allow vending of 100% legal items. We'll talk it over.
But the reality is a lot of this stuff is on the edge of the law, and I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not willing to get raided by the FBI just because people want to make money hawking goods.
And kratom isn't legal except in some states: http://speciosa.org/home/kratom-legality-map/
You might as well be asking us to allow people to sell pot on here.
[–]NuttinBuddaHoundDawg 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (6 children)
You might as well be asking us to allow people to sell pot on here.
No no no, Marijuana is ILLEGAL on the Federal level, it's a Schedule 1 Narcotic and has been since the 1930's. That's a ridiculous analogy. Pot IS much different than kratom, legally speaking.
Kratom, and other herbal / botanical products, or cuban cigars for that matter, may be illegal under some "State or Local" jurisdictions but that's not how laws work on The Internet. Unless you're going to run your website under the most restrictive legal environment out there ... lets say Mississippi, Indiana, Alabama.
Why stop there? People have been sued for all kinds of offensive speech too. All of those states BAN gambling too - you gonna disallow any discussion of betting on sports here? Promotion of drinking?
I mean ... I understand the Grey Market people connected to Silk Road / the "Dark Web" ARE involved in Federal crimes. There IS trading for Schedule 1 narcotics on the TOR network.. That's completely different from a legal medicinal herb which, has a following 40,000 people on reddit. Thank you.
[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (5 children)
We are considering allowing it since our servers are in Texas. But if someone from Alabama buys stuff from Mississipi on saidit, what is the actual legal liability of the site? It's hard to find a reliable answer to that question.
[–]NuttinBuddaHoundDawg 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (4 children)
One: State laws would be enforced by each state Attorney General, based on who shipped a product into that state.. Obviously any enforcement is directed at the vendor who shipped. Where the consumer heard about the vendor, seems immaterial. Naturally, online vendors want to avoid trouble & be very careful where they SHIP an item. A good example for this is tobacco. Many tobacco vendors sell online. That is against the law in Washington State: http://www.atg.wa.gov/ban-internet-and-mail-order-tobacco-sales
Two: Congress today, is debating several bills regarding the "Opioid Crisis". A big target for today's action is the Silk Road, dark web, trading of fentanyl and other synthetic drugs. It's a huge problem, serious biz... Understandable that saidit.net does NOT want to be a source, or online portal.
Kratom, otoh, is barely on the radar in these discussions. There is an ongoing debate with FDA, AKA, and other organizations. IF the Federal DEA status of kratom were to ever change, I'd be outta here.. Vendors would be gone, in that case!
Oh.. there ARE many kratom vendors, and kratom Groups, active on Facebook. Direct selling from FB is discouraged. However posting Links, and Info seems fine .. Example: 1 vendor has 8000 subscribers: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Katskshop/
[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (0 children)
Okay you convinced me. D3rr and I have talked it over and I will re-write the terms and services to allow for legal vending, and make it clear only illegal vending is not allowed. I see no reason to ban legal vending.
And as long as you're sticking to one substance it's easier to know the rules regarding it, as opposed to the myriad of substances on /s/greymarket. And since it's legal in Texas, which is where the server is, I see no reason to ban it, but I will make it clear in the TOS that the user is responsible for knowing the law that applies to their area. Perhaps you could put up a legality map showing "if you live in these states you are not allowed to buy" so that the users of your forum can follow the law easily, and thus saidit is protected as well. As long as you police your own users in this way and take this seriously, then kratom vending can exist on saidit and shouldn't cause issues because saidit won't be put in any legal jeopardy.
[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (2 children)
You see this? https://p2a.co/f90Valr?resetcookie=1
[–]NuttinBuddaHoundDawg 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (1 child)
Yes, the SITSA bill has been floating around in Congress for a year. That "Alert" you reference, is for a Committee vote in the House today. So the final Bill is getting marked up & may get a House vote this week.. From there it would go to Senate. It's part of the ongoing fight, and everyone's watching it closely.
[–]NuttinBuddaHoundDawg 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 10 months ago (0 children)
It's also argued the SITSA Bill cannot apply to kratom, since the Bill is very specific about defining Synthetic Analogues. But we're watching it and AKA attorneys are on it.