Can we have less use of the words "left" and "right" here, please?

submitted by Robin from self.SaidIt

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[–]HeyImSancho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

To the OP, let me ask you, how do we identify anyone without description? Case in point is how often times people's color isn't used to describe the BOLO in regards to crime; you've got to be psychic. So like in this case, not using left, or right, when describing people who openly identify as left, or right would be difficult.

Do you get where I'm coming from? You couldn't match antifa up with democrats, or the left, but instead would call them, 'antifa, a politically orientated group'? How does not using left, or right work? Please explain :)

[–]Robin[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think I do understand where you're coming from. As if you're trying to find your way around, and I'm suggesting not to use signposts! :-)

I agree that describing is important to identification, but I don't see "left"/"right" as descriptions so much as labels. Description is a more thoughtful, less reflexive process than labelling. It does takes longer, but it is more informative.

In the directional sense, extreme left and right are 100% opposite, but this isn't true in the metaphorical sense, so the metaphor is a polarising perspective. Similarly, the political "left" and "right" disagree among themselves on plenty of issues, which the label helps one to overlook.

The name "Antifa" is a contraction of "Anti-fascist", isn't it? What is an "anti-"fascist? Some who opposes all fascists? Or all aspects of fascism? Does the group have positive policy of itself? Is it, for example "pro-immigrant"? OK, this is a label, too, but a more descriptive one. Does it favour higher taxes or less income inequality? If I had to refer to their orientation in general, I would describe them as a (self-styled) "left" group (in quotes), meaning that the label is suspect. I would generally try and avoid discourse in which a single word (or just a few words) was all that anyone wanted to know about the group.

Avoiding the terms "left" and "right" makes political discourse more long winded, but also multi-dimensional, which I've found to be extra effort well spent. It's important to notice, for example, that far from being opposites, the long established political parties are more or less identical on a whole range of key issues, such as the need to keep fighting the War Of Terror.

The extended answer to this question is at https://www.unwelcomeguests.net/, a recommended radio show/podcast that makes minimal reference to the political spectrum, especially the episodes since 2010. I know that material fairly well, so if I knew more of you're angle, I could maybe recommend a specific episode.

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I know that material fairly well, so if I knew more of you're angle, I could maybe recommend a specific episode.

I think my angle left the building long ago, lol. Often, I'll use, 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink'; as there are real world limitations to what people can comprehend, wrap their mind around, or more to the point, hide their ignorance. There are a lot of folks that hide ignorance, perhaps stupidity behind various created 'veils'.

So in the end, my angle is more so of self-development. I actually don't like the lingo left, or right, but at the same time, people are willing to fight to maintain their labels. Sadly, the respectful thing is to call them as they choose; which they do, left, or right, or in between.

I'm fine with being 'in between', and outnumbered; the scariest thing I can imagine is going to my death knowing my life was a lie to my soul. To myself, insta-hell.

[–]Robin[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you must talk to people who insist you use these terms, you could try "so-called left"... or use intonation/air quotes to signify that these are their labels, not yours.

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course anyone's got to talk to them, they're everywhere. I've used air quotes before, and even 'so-called-x', and sure, sometimes someone will get it, but often enough, you get those looks, 'bro, you a bit crazy, no?', lol.

What's the result? I don't talk much, I don't actually participate in forums like I once did. People are on different intellectual paths, and whether they realize it, or not, their own journey.