Prohibition’s surprising success by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

that shit rag is straight up mini-truth scrub and re-write propaganda!

You're the one spreading big alcohol propaganda while ignoring real evidence. You can't even disprove their claims; all you do is repeat the same thing all the other shills do — a claim the article disproved.

When prohibition ended: guess who opened up all the bars? Organized crime! They didn't decide to shut down their liquor businesses just because the Democrats made it legal to sell — if anything, that made it easier for them.

Prohibition’s surprising success by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]GST893 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Prohibition was an abject failure. It led to a rise in crime as the sale of illicit alcohol funded organized crime. The laws failed so miserably that the us government took to poisoning industrial alcohol supplies that were often stolen in order to make illicit alcohol. Fuck Vox, that shit rag is straight up mini-truth scrub and re-write propaganda!

Prohibition’s surprising success by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is always that one bitch that tries to fuck it up for everybody else.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]Noam_Chomsky 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Krokodil has been synthesized in Russia for over a decade.

Russia?! That scary Boogeyman country? Pure Evil!

/s

;-)

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Krokodil has been synthesized in Russia for over a decade. About one million people in Russia use krokodil according to the New York State Office of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services. Krokodil goes by the names of “Cheornaya” in Russia and “Himiya” in Ukraine.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ultimately, the government has no business telling me what I can or cannot put into my own body even if it is something harmful like alcohol or drugs.

I believe it does, since drug addicts commit crime and are less productive, thus hurting the economy. If yall want to move to some third world country and shoot up meth: fine by me, but don't do it here (or illegally immigrate back when things go wrong).

The purpose of a government is to protect the citizenry, not to sit idly by while the entire county burns to the ground.

Murder is different than selling drugs because you are violently taking someone's life against their will, rather than voluntarily selling them a product that could cause them harm.

I don't care about whether or not it was voluntary; I care that the outcome is death — it makes no difference what caused the death, simply that it occurred. It matters not to you that someone died, your only concern is whether or not they chose to die — as if liberty is more important than morality!

That's the difference between Libertarianism and Authoritarianism: the former seeks to destroy morality in the name of unchecked liberty, while the later seeks to maintain morality at all costs. The single greatest threat to the Nation is unchecked liberty — for society collapses without a moral foundation to stand upon.

Furthermore, these "voluntary" transactions are exploitative, with wealthy Capitalists profiting off the suffering and death of working-class men and women, who were tricked into believing poison will solve their problems — they even say moderate drinking is healthy, despite evidence to the contrary!

Eventually, they get you dumbed down and addicted, to the point where the decision is not yours to make, but rather the drug's — there can be no voluntary transaction in such cases.

I would much rather abolish the ATF / local ABC stores and have things return to the free market.

The ATF is unconstitutional anyways, in violation of the second and tenth amendments.

The free market is the number one cause of moral decay; the ultra-rich profit from abortion, alcohol, pornography, and pedophilia — immortality is as inherent to Capitalism as it is to Communism! If we serve money over our Nation: we no longer have a Nation — both metaphorically and literally, as outsourcing and open borders are inherent to the free market.

If you want to live in a authoritarian state where people are given the death penalty for selling drugs to willing buyers, there's always Singapore.

They're too capitalist, too undemocratic, and not socially conservative enough. They play into the same globalist system the United States does.

Government should only exist to protect people's rights, not to be their parents and project their desired morals and beliefs.

I disagree, obviously. I believe that if the government can do good: it should do good, for to stand idly by while murder is committed is no better than committing the murder yourself!

Sorry for the rant, I should really be in bed right now... nothing personal.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]Drewski 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I support legalization (but also decriminalization as a stepping stone). Ultimately, the government has no business telling me what I can or cannot put into my own body even if it is something harmful like alcohol or drugs. Murder is different than selling drugs because you are violently taking someone's life against their will, rather than voluntarily selling them a product that could cause them harm. I agree that you could make a strong case for the state's involvement in alcohol distribution being a crime syndicate, I would much rather abolish the ATF / local ABC stores and have things return to the free market.

If you want to live in a authoritarian state where people are given the death penalty for selling drugs to willing buyers, there's always Singapore. I personally couldn't stand to live in a place like that. Government should only exist to protect people's rights, not to be their parents and project their desired morals and beliefs. That's the job of families and local communities.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]Noam_Chomsky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

According to the DEA, in 2004 the National Forensic Laboratory Information System (NFLIS) identified two samples of desomorphine. Since that time, no other exhibits have been identified as desomorphine to date. It had previously been used medically in Switzerland under the brand name Permonid.

Two samples identified? Really?

How did they know to test it?

There have been multiple unconfirmed news reports of users in the U.S. who have had extreme skin ulcerations, infections and scale-like skin due to use of krokodil.

Sounds like "krokodil" went to a Russian gain of function lab, and the hoax fell on it's face.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's called krokodil and it's very real.

Desomorphine, known by the street name krokodil, is an opioid derivative of codeine. Like heroin and other opioids, it has a sedative and analgesic effect and is highly addictive. Those who inject these caustic agents into their veins can develop extreme skin ulcerations, infections, and gangrene -- a discolored (green, grey, black) scale-like skin that resembles a crocodile, hence the street name “krokodil". Krokodil is also called “Russian Magic”, referring to its short duration of opioid intoxication (euphoria).

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Libertarians...

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Alcohol is indeed dangerous when used in excess.

Alcohol is always dangerous, no matter how much you use.

However, alcohol prohibition was an abject failure the same way drug prohibition is a failure today.

Murder is illegal, but people still do it, so we should legalize that, right?

It creates crime syndicates

Only because they were legal syndicates before and after prohibition. Guess who opened all the bars when the twenty-first was passed? Organized crime has existed for hundreds of years and will continue to for hundreds more, regardless of our laws on drugs.

And crime syndicates do a lot of illegal things to get away with murder, like bribing politicians, so I guess that's another reason murder should be legal?

drives problem behavior underground, and keeps addicts from getting help.

Only if it's criminalized.

Instead of criminalizing alcohol, we should decriminalize all drugs and allow addicts to get help rather than being thrown in jail and stigmatized by society.

There's a huge difference between decriminalization and legalization. If so'm is decriminalized: you don't go to prison for it, but it's still illegal; if so'm is legal: you don't even get charged even with a misdemeanor or forced to do rehab.

I want to decriminalize all drugs, but I also want them to be illegal. People should be forced to go to rehab (for free) and get better — except drug dealers, they're murderers and should get the death penalty. (Exceptions for people who sell drugs that don't kill people.)

You seem to support legalization, not decriminalization.

No one even enforced Prohibition anyways, so you can't say it failed when it wasn't actually tried. Two out of three Presidents tasked with enforcing it were against it — which is why they sabotaged it — and the only one who did, Harding, was only half-ass for it.

Meanwhile, everyone's taking bribes and the few prohibition agents we had were too busy poisoning people to actually do their job. Furthermore, there were a lot of loop-holes, like for medical and religious purposes — and drinking wasn't actually a crime, just "the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors" (at least federally).

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

did they die at like 75 or something, that's fine

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]Drewski 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Alcohol is indeed dangerous when used in excess. However, alcohol prohibition was an abject failure the same way drug prohibition is a failure today. It creates crime syndicates, drives problem behavior underground, and keeps addicts from getting help.

Instead of criminalizing alcohol, we should decriminalize all drugs and allow addicts to get help rather than being thrown in jail and stigmatized by society.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

If 95k people need to die so I can have a beer, so be it.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]Noam_Chomsky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I remember seeing a vice news video about a drug in Russia called crocodile.

Looking back, I bet they made that crap up.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]thefirststone 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Note that this is in Britain, which has a very peculiar binge-drinking culture.

Can't extrapolate to other parts of the world, or even the rest of the anglosphere. The chart's also useless for comparison purposes, and they don't even link to the 2010 paper.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

In think the trouble you have is that while anyone can get a chemical addiction to heroine or crack very quickly most non-alcoholic drinkers are never going to become alcoholics and can't imagine being so.

Ironically, the fact that it's harder to get addicted makes people drink more. They can quit any time, but they choose not to — it's pure stupidity!

You have to push yourself through months and years of hugging the toilet bowl before you get to addiction. That shows real commitment of the addict to oblivion not so much the power of the drug.

Most people who drink do it to try and cope with stuff. It's quite exploitative how these folks need help, but people sell them literal poison instead — how do they sleep at night knowing they ruin lives, knowing they kill people?

I literally cannot image being addicted to alcohol, it offers nothing worth the negative effects of being dependant for me.

A lot of people in my family are alcoholics, so I always knew to stay away from that crap. My uncle is going to prison for stealing a truck while drunk, and my mom's cousin nearly killed herself drunk driving.

I believe memory blackouts while drinking is linked quite strongly to child abuse or other trauma in a person's past

Any sources to back that up? I never heard that assertion before and would be interested in reading up on it. I feel like most people who claim to be blackout drunk are just trying to avoid the consequences of their actions, like my mom's cousin (I think she thought they wouldn't take her license away if she said that, which obviously didn't work).

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, cool, thanks!

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

In think the trouble you have is that while anyone can get a chemical addiction to heroine or crack very quickly most non-alcoholic drinkers are never going to become alcoholics and can't imagine being so.

Unlike other addictive drugs alcohol makes you feel very ill one way or another long before you get dangerously poisoned. You have to push yourself through months and years of hugging the toilet bowl before you get to addiction. That shows real commitment of the addict to oblivion not so much the power of the drug.

I literally cannot image being addicted to alcohol, it offers nothing worth the negative effects of being dependant for me. But then I never get blackout drunk, I remember every second, so I know I've got to deal with what I've done the morning after.

I believe memory blackouts while drinking is linked quite strongly to child abuse or other trauma in a person's past, maybe that's the real issue which needs addressing and will prevent alcohol being so damaging.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]soundsituation 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Archive with full text: https://archive.ph/HFwCX

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

And how many people died from alcohol over those 30-100k years? In the US alone: 95k die every year.

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

alcohol is mostly harmless

Tell that to all the people whose livers failed. Tell that to all the people who died from alcohol-induced cancer. Tell that to all the people who killed themselves drunk driving. Tell that to all the people ran over by drunk drivers. Tell that to all the people murdered by drunkards.

Oh, yeah, you can't — cause they're all dead. Ninety-five thousand; that's how many people die in the US each year cause people like you care more about getting drunk than human lives.

been used for thousands of years

Murder has happened for thousands of years, so should we legalize that?

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

let's legalize them all then cuz alcohol is mostly harmless, been used for thousands of years

What is the most dangerous drug? [Spoiler: it's alcohol!] by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Alcohol ranked #1 overall, #4 in harm to users, and #1 in harm to others. Alcohol was the only drug on the chart that harmed others more than the user. Alcohol also ranked #3 in "Health damage, mental impairment and dependence."

Adam Ruins Everything - Why "Moderate Drinking" isn't Really Good for You | truTV by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The healthiest way to drink, is to not drink.

Perfectly Balanced Bubbles? by RuckusChan in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's the work of Satan!

That's a joke, by the way.

According to big alcohol: your life is worth $300,000 by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I thought that might be a factor — but regardless, drinking every week is sure to be bad for your liver.

According to big alcohol: your life is worth $300,000 by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]beece 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But you don't know how much she drank.

According to big alcohol: your life is worth $300,000 by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm surprised she lived that long. Drinking that much should destroy your liver.

According to big alcohol: your life is worth $300,000 by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]beece 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I drank every Sunday for many years with my mother. Sadly, the drinking caught up to her. She was just a few months shy of 99 years old.

According to big alcohol: your life is worth $300,000 by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]pcpmasterrace 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Look at Muslim society and their crime rates.

Afghanistan has the fourth-highest crime-rate in the world, meanwhile Qatar has the lowest. Syria and Iraq also have high crime rates, although only slightly higher than the US, while Saudi Arabia and the UAE have much lower crime rates than the US.

The reason is quite obvious: the high-crime countries are literal war-zones, while the low-crime countries are not. Also, Iraq and Syria don't ban alcohol, meanwhile Saudi Arabia does — Afghanistan also bans alcohol, but keep in mind that the government is unable to enforce even the most basic laws, let alone prohibition.

People are bad first then drink to forget how bad they are.

It's true that bad people are drawn to bad things, but also that bad things make good people bad.

Sources:

World Population Review. "Crime Rate by Country 2021". World Population Review, 2021, https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country.

According to big alcohol: your life is worth $300,000 by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you want to hurt yourself, others, and society at large.

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not entirely sure where changing the subject is, but I'm sure it ain't high up.

According to big alcohol: your life is worth $300,000 by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]beece 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wut chu sayin? Can I keep drinking bourbon?

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Muslims don't drink and then run over toddlers

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Look at Muslim society and their crime rates. People are bad first then drink to forget how bad they are.

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Both

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Deflecting to racism won't make the facts go away.

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you more likely to commit a crime if you're black, or if you drink?

According to big alcohol: your life is worth $300,000 by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe I'll write an essay about this some time.

Alcohol-Related Crimes: Statistics and Facts by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I've been meaning to post this article for a while, but forgot. In summary, alcoholics commit:

  • 15% of robberies

  • 37% of sexual assaults and rapes

  • 27% of aggravated assaults

  • 66.67% of intimate partner violence

  • 40% of child abuses

  • 40% of homicides

The American Citadel: Prohibition Was a Success by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Deal. I don't take you seriously. Now fuck off.

The American Citadel: Prohibition Was a Success by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wrong on the party, the ad hominem was weak.

The American Citadel: Prohibition Was a Success by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah just like the war on drugs. A real victory. Anyone who supports the destruction and confiscation of property by the government can swing from thier neck.

The American Citadel: Prohibition Was a Success by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just found this today, and although it's anti-Semitic, it goes much more in-depth than the NYT article did. Here's an archive.

Opinion | Actually, Prohibition Was a Success (Published 1989) by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Imagine the NYT posting this today, it wouldn't happen.

Opinion | Actually, Prohibition Was a Success (Published 1989) by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's locked behind a paywall, but you can read it on Arhive.org.

Mexico wants America to decriminalize all drugs. This is an article from when Mexico first tried to legalize drugs but heavy pressure from American Pharma had something to say about it. by [deleted] in Prohibition

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Great article.

Prohibition from a century ago is also very much worth study.

So too is Portugal who solved their crisis by decriminalizing all drugs - all of them.