you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]ActuallyNot 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

I think that the British system is better where only police in dangerous areas, or specifically trained firearms units, carry guns.

All this shootings by police is counterproductive on every level: Respect and trust for the police, crime investigation. When it happens to minorities it seeds interracial violence and hate crimes, and contributes to creating a vigilante culture where police are not used.

The officer wasn't under any threat. Charges might stick if any are brought.

[–]IMissPorn 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I sort of agree, but it's not worth giving up our guns for, and unarmed police probably aren't realistic otherwise.

Personally I'd just like use of deadly force to be seen as a career ending failure. Their job is to catch criminals, not kill 'em. Some guy rushed you with a knife so you killed him to save your own skin? Understandable, but you're not cut out for this job. Rare exceptions can be made for hostage situations, stopping active shooters and suchlike, but killing in self defense, while sufficient to avoid criminal liability, should not be considered a normal or acceptable part of police work.

Of course some times (like this case) it's pretty hard to even justify self defense, but as I see it the more important point is that if they're shooting people they're not doing their job right.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

it's not worth giving up our guns for

Yeah, god forbid that Americans be safe from armed criminal gangs, the police (but I repeat myself), accidental shootings and trannies rampaging through schools killing kids.

So how many tyrannies have you overthrown yet? Couldn't even stop the 2020 election from being stolen.

[–]IMissPorn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Overthrowing them would be great, but we're holding them at bay better than a lot of places at least. Look at the lockdowns for instance. Once the government knows you're helpless they turn oppression up to 11, where as we only got like 6 or something here.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

we're holding them at bay better than a lot of places at least.

America is the land of the free. Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

Regardless of whether Kang or Kodos is in power, the US literally is ruled for the benefit of megacorps and the banks. Your country is a literal police state with more police agencies, and a larger number of people in prison, than any other country. The NSA literally records every phone call you make, every email you send, every fax you send (back when people sent faxes). The FBI spies on anyone and everyone, and entraps people into criminal activity, and the courts go along with it. The regulatory agencies are owned by the corporations they're supposed to be regulating. Big companies making billions in profits get given free money by the wheelbarrow full while small mom-and-pop businesses drown under regulations. You have the worst, and most expensive, medical care in the developed world. There is no transparency in how your elections are run, both parties are dirty as fuck. Both parties spend so much money on the military that sometimes even the generals say that they don't know what to do with the money. You have virtually no industry except Wall Street.

You live in a fascist state where every four years you get to vote for a figurehead, but nothing important changes. Whoever wins, Kang or Kodos, they will distract you with stupid culture wars over trivialities like pronouns, abortion, "the War On Christmas" and other bullshit while they rule for the sole benefit of the elite 0.1%.

Look at the lockdowns for instance.

Sweden says hello.

[–]IMissPorn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most not all.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Couldn't even stop the 2020 election from being stolen.

Stolen?

Fox paid $787.5m to dominion voting systems, three and a half times the value of the whole company in the lead up to the 2020 election.

Why did they do that instead of showing in court that they believed the election was stolen, or at least were reporting lies but without actual malice?

They had three external law firms working for them, and some of the top lawyers in the country.

If you know something they didn't, you should have spoken up.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Stolen?

If I were to be scrupulously fair, I would say that the evidence is not sufficient to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the 2020 presidential election was outright stolen. But there is more than enough evidence of election illegalities to call it fraudulent on the balance of probabilities.

And the US Supreme Court agrees.

  • The SCOTUS ruled that swing states had illegally counted invalid ballots and that this likely swung the result from Trump to Biden, but ruled 4 to 3 that this illegal act didn't matter and should not be investigated. (By the way, both of Trump's appointees agreed with the majority view -- I guess the Democrats were correct when they said that neither Kavanaugh nor Barrett were qualified to be Supreme Court justices.)

  • The three dissenting judges wrote dissents.

So there you have it: straight from the SCOTUS, the 2020 election was probably decided by illegal votes, but that's absolutely fine. American democracy in action. When the Supreme Court stole the election for Dubyah Bush in 2000, the mainstream press screamed about it for weeks. Now, not a peep.

There's an imperial ton (that's bigger than a metric ton) of evidence suggesting fraud, but with the refusal of the justice department or any neutral electoral commission to investigate, the case for fraud remains unproven to the standard required by the law.

The thing to remember about the American electoral system is that there are no reliable systems to ensure or verify vote-counting, and bipartisan laws make it almost impossible to prove electoral fraud, even in the most blatant cases. Sure, they prosecute a few petty cheats for voting three times, but that's about all. Counties are supposed to hold ballots for recount, but they routinely, and illegally, destroy ballots immediately after the election, making verification impossible.

Fox paid $787.5m to dominion voting systems

Dominion has been awarded $787 million. Whether Fox actually pays it or not remains to be seen. But Fox's revenue for the 12 months ending March of this year was just under $15 billion, they can afford it. To Rupert Murdoch, this is just a cost of doing business.

Why did they do that instead of showing in court that they believed the election was stolen, or at least were reporting lies but without actual malice?

Why indeed?

Fox is controlled opposition. They don't want to see Trump win any more than the Never Trump Republicans or Democrats do. But they do want to establish a terrible precedent that the establishment can weaponise against indy media.

There's a shit-ton of evidence that Dominion machines could have been hacked or manipulated, including actual forensic evidence of vote manipulation in Michigan. The one time a court allowed an independent auditor to look at a Dominion voting machine, which the county fought tooth and nail to prevent, the audit found a ton of evidence that the machine's error rate of 68% was far above legally permitted levels.

The audit also found that the machine had been improperly manipulated and data deleted, with missing security logs and evidence of tampering.

We know, without even a shadow of a doubt, that electronic voting machines can be hacked. It is widely known in the IT Security sector just how insecure electronic voting is, and until Dominion started throwing lawsuits around, the media used to report on the use of secret, unaudited software that can easily and undetectably modify votes and suffer from proven security vulnerabilities.

The security flaws in voting machines were reported right up to the 2020 election, and then Dominion started suing media outlets and "setting the record straight" about how amazingly awesomely secure their voting machines are. The two biggest voting machine companies don't even pretend to be neutral: Premier (formally known as Diebold) is closely tied to the Republicans; the CEO of Diebold once infamously promised in public to "deliver" Ohio to the Republicans. Dominion was started by Democrats, who remain share holders in the company.

US elections have been vulnerable for a long time. The chain of custody of voting machines is often broken, with election officials unable to account for machines. Voting systems are frequently broken into. A year ago, CISA reported on a bunch of software vulnerabilities in Dominion systems.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

But there is more than enough evidence of election illegalities to call it fraudulent on the balance of probabilities.

Not even close. Every single court case that has been brought, and there have been many has not just failed, it's been laughed out of court. In many cases sanctions have been applied to the attorneys for bringing frivolous lawsuits.

The SCOTUS ruled that swing states had illegally counted invalid ballots and that this likely swung the result from Trump to Biden

You might have to link me to that ruling.

All I can find is that they refused to hear the case. U.S. Supreme Court formally pulls the plug on election-related cases

The three dissenting judges wrote dissents.

Which case is the one you reckon is about the 2020 election?

Bridge Aina Le’a, LLC v. Hawaii Land Use Commission is a case about a company wanting to build homes in Hawaii.

Dominion has been awarded $787 million. Whether Fox actually pays it or not remains to be seen.

Nope. That was an out of court settlement. That what Fox agreed to pay to get out of going to court.

Fox is controlled opposition. They don't want to see Trump win any more than the Never Trump Republicans or Democrats do.

They pushed a lie about the election being stolen, even though they knew it to be false. They misrepresent facts a lot, but in this case, there were victims who suffered financial loss.

There's a shit-ton of evidence that Dominion machines could have been hacked or manipulated, including actual forensic evidence of vote manipulation in Michigan.

You should have let fox know. They spent $787.5 million dollars because that was not only false, but they knew it to be false.

You could have offered it to them for $400 million, and bought yourself a new car.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Every single court case that has been brought, and there have been many has not just failed, it's been laughed out of court.

Not every single case, I can think of at least one exception, but certainly the vast majority of cases have been dismissed on technical grounds: usually lack of standing to sue. The cases weren't "laughed out of court" because the evidence was bad -- although I admit than in some cases it was bad -- but because the petitioner had no legal right to sue. The evidence was not considered.

Which of course is the point: with very few exceptions, the claims of fraud have not been investigated or heard in the courts, they have merely been dismissed without considering the evidence. When Bill Barr said that the DoJ found no evidence of any election fraud, he was telling the truth because the DoJ did not investigate or look for election fraud. There are hundreds of people who have sworn affidavits on penalty of perjury that they witnessed election fraud, and the DoJ simply failed to investigate, then said they found no evidence fraud.

Prior to 2016, it was prohibitively expensive and difficult to contest an election result or call for a recount. But after 2016, the laws were amended to make it almost impossible. Only the second-place losing candidate can sue, and only if the winning margin is less than 1% of the votes. (Note to anyone considering election fraud: make sure you win by more than 1%.)

Under the current laws, the quality of evidence is irrelevant. Almost all of the people who tried to sue for a recount had no standing to sue, or the court simply had no jurisdiction to hear the case. When you hear about a lawsuit being thrown out, remember that this means the evidence was never even looked at not that the evidence was poor.

The courts routinely ignore election officials breaking the laws, e.g. destroying paper ballots after they are counted, voting machines being connected to the internet, ballots being counted behind closed doors without observers from the other party being allowed to watch, evidence of tampering of data on voting machines, etc. Prior to November 2020 these were known problems that the media was prepared to talk about, especially Democrat accusations that Republicans have stolen elections. But after November 2020 the media started calling claims of fraud "unprecedented", and that it is virtually treason to question the results.

Barrack Obama won his first nomination for the Illinois senate in 1996 by successfully accusing all four of his Democrat opponents of electoral fraud and having them removed from the ballot, leading to him standing unopposed. Then in 2020 Obama told Trump to stop whining about losing and that accusations of election fraud were endangering democracy.

The evidence doesn't legally matter because the laws are designed to make it seem like there is election oversight but in fact there are loopholes big enough to sail an aircraft carrier through.

And when all else fails, do what Maricopa County election officials did: simply refuse to cooperate with subpoenas.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not every single case, I can think of at least one exception

There was one part of one case where the scrutineers were allowed to stand closer to those counting the ballets than they were comfortable with, given CoVID.

Every single ruling about evidence of fraud was thrown out. And the Kraken lawyers were sanctioned for bringing frivolous lawsuits, which they are appealing.

the claims of fraud have not been investigated or heard in the courts, they have merely been dismissed without considering the evidence,

No. That's wrong. The courts involved all look at the evidence. That's what courts do. They found that the evidence was lacking. Completely. So much so that bringing the cases was sanctionable.

Under the current laws, the quality of evidence is irrelevant.

Not in this case. It was very relevant that the quality of evidence was so shit.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Every single ruling about evidence of fraud was thrown out. And the Kraken lawyers were sanctioned for bringing frivolous lawsuits, which they are appealing.

The Kraken lawyers do seem to be shysters but did you actually read the judge's ruling in the sanction? I have. It doesn't prove what you think it does.

  • Page 2 of the sanction says: "To be clear, for the purpose of the pending sanctions motions, the Court is neither being asked to decide nor has it decided whether there was fraud in the 2020 presidential election in the State of Michigan." The sanctions are not about electoral fraud, but about the attorney's professional behaviour.

  • In her conclusion, the judge makes it clear that the attorneys wasted the court's time by pressing a case that could not be won: "given the deficiencies in the pleadings, which claim violations of Michigan election law without a thorough understanding of what the law requires...". This is not a claim that the claims of fraud had no merit. This is a claim that the lawyers failed to understand what was required by the law to prove fraud. (To be clear: that's bad for a lawyer. But it doesn't disprove the claims of fraud.)

  • The judge states that the attorneys abused the legal system in four ways:

    • by proffering claims not backed by law;
    • proffering claims not backed by evidence;
    • by proffering factual allegations and claims without engaging in the required prefiling inquiry;
    • and dragging out these proceedings even after they acknowledged that it was too late to attain the relief sought.

The last item is critical. This is not a claim about the merits of the case, but that plaintiffs missed their opportunity to challenge the result and it was too late to do anything about it, and therefore they should have withdrawn. The judge is not using these exact words, but essentially she is saying that even if they were right about the election fraud, legally once the Michigan electors certified the result, there is no legal possibility to overturn it. To quote:

“First, Plaintiffs’ counsel unreasonably and vexatiously multiplied the proceedings in this litigation by failing to dismiss the case when their claims became moot, which plainly occurred upon the vote of Michigan’s electors on December 14, if not earlier.” (Emphasis added.)

This was not just a throw-away comment, it was critical to the sanctions. The judge literally sanctioned the attorneys for making the defendants file a motion to dismiss instead of voluntarily withdrawing it, and repeated her comment almost word for word: "... by failing to voluntarily dismiss this lawsuit on the date Plaintiffs’ counsel acknowledged it would be moot and thereby necessitating the filing of motions to dismiss, Plaintiffs’ attorneys unreasonably and vexatiously multiplied the proceedings."

Democracy in action. Doesn't matter if the elections are fraudulent, once the result is accepted, you're stuck with it. Once the state electors certify the result, it no longer matters what evidence you have and the courts expect you to withdraw the case under penalty of legal sanction.

As far as the evidence goes, the judge deferred entirely to the state case Costantino, which "rejected" the evidence given. Note that the judge does not say that the evidence was disproved, but only that it was "rejected". The Michigan court rejected the Costantino case in just four days, so I doubt that anyone looked deeply into the evidence. There was certainly no official attempt to collect forensic evidence of fraud, or interview witnesses, or question election workers. The evidence was not seen by a jury, there was no cross-examination of witnesses under penalty of perjury.

And then ten days later the court rejected an appeal by Costantino because the question of fraud was now moot as the electors had certified the results.

Do you not see the vicious circle here? The evidence doesn't get investigated by the authorities who have a vested interest in not rocking the boat, and that lack of investigation gets used as justification to reject the evidence out of hand, which means it never gets seen in a court with a jury and cross-examinations, which then gets used as justification for claiming the evidence has no merit. And since the claims of fraud have no merit, that proves that the elections are fair and secure and there's no need to investigate claims of fraud they can just be dismissed out of hand.

Even if it is correct that the Kraken lawyers used fake "evidence" (in which case I agree they should be sanctioned!) that tells us nothing about the hundreds of other claims from all over the country.

To be clear: I'm not naive. I realise that the majority of fraud claims made in the heat of days and weeks after the 2020 election are probably bogus. Many of them, even if true, may not have shifted the result. But without a proper investigation by authorities, the best anyone can do is collect evidence which suggests fraud, but if the authorities refuse to investigate you cannot prove it to any legal standard. Which is the point -- the only people who are capable of proving fraud to the high standard required to overturn an election refused to investigate, and then used that failure to dismiss the fraud claims with "there's no evidence".

Hundreds of witnesses are prepared to swear in a court of law, under penalty of perjury, that they witnessed fraud. Not one single one of them has actually been asked to do so.

Without a proper investigation by law enforcement and election officials, whatever evidence you can gather will be rejected as "conjecture and supposition" regardless of its merits, and then after being rejected you have no opportunity to defend the evidence and prove it in a court of law.

E.g. videos of election workers unloading ballot boxes at 3am at polling centers when they're supposed to be closed for the night get dismissed as "conjecture" because nobody saw what was inside the boxes (maybe they were filled with kittens) or whether the supposed ballots were actually counted (maybe the workers used them as toilet paper) or indeed whether the ballots were fraudulent or not. The videos don't prove that they were fraudulent so the assumption is that they are not.

Statistical anomalies like thousands of ballots in a row going to one candidate, or results flipping from one candidate to the other overnight when there shouldn't be any vote counting going on, get dismissed as "supposition" on the say-so of the voting machine company claiming "Trust us, nobody can flip votes" and even when security experts prove the opposite it doesn't matter because nobody can prove that those specific votes were flipped since the election data is unavailable and the machines almost never get audited.

In the incredibly rare case that a voting machine is audited, and the auditors find that it had been improperly manipulated and data deleted, with security logs removed and evidence of tampering, that's not enough to prove election fraud because without the security logs you can't prove that the votes were tampered with. And so it goes.

There are two ways of looking at democratic elections:

  1. Elections must not just be fair but also seen to be fair, and if votes could have been fraudulently changed then we must assume that they were and reject the election results.

  2. Or that election results are fair by definition, and unless you can point to which specific votes were fraudulently changed at what exact moment by which precise person, we must assume that the results are legitimate. If the results could have been changed, that does not matter unless you can prove that they were changed. (Which of course you cannot do in the mere weeks you have before the electors certify the results.)

The people of the USA expect #1 holds but the law operates on #2.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the sanctions trials, the court focused on sanctionable conduct.

In the trials themselves, the courts decided on the complete lack of evidence of fraud.

The Michigan court rejected the Costantino case in just four days, so I doubt that anyone looked deeply into the evidence.

I don't. The lack of evidence was really obvious.

To know that the affidavits supplied by plaintiffs, purporting fraud, were "rife" with generalization, speculation, hearsay, and a lack of evidentiary basis, all you have to do is read them. Noting that there's a lack of evidentiary basis is as deep as you can look into the evidence in cases like this were none is supplied.

And then ten days later the court rejected an appeal by Costantino because the question of fraud was now moot as the electors had certified the results.

Noting that the lower court had already ruled that there was no evidence of fraud.

Even if it is correct that the Kraken lawyers used fake "evidence" (in which case I agree they should be sanctioned!) that tells us nothing about the hundreds of other claims from all over the country.

It's telling that the ones that were brought before courts all failed.

Hundreds of witnesses are prepared to swear in a court of law, under penalty of perjury, that they witnessed fraud. Not one single one of them has actually been asked to do so.

Who are these hundreds, and why didn't the Kraken lawyers get them instead of the blatant bullshit that they submitted as affidavits?

E.g. videos of election workers unloading ballot boxes at 3am at polling centers when they're supposed to be closed for the night get dismissed as "conjecture"

Can you be more specific with your example? Which polling center are you talking about?

Statistical anomalies like thousands of ballots in a row going to one candidate

That would be a statistical anomaly. What's your example of that?

or results flipping from one candidate to the other overnight when there shouldn't be any vote counting going on

There was a case where results were incorrectly entered into the press system, by typo. There was no case where results flipped overnight, just the reporting of the results were corrected.

In the incredibly rare case that a voting machine is audited

In 2020 44 states required a post election audit. That's better described by "pretty common" than "incredibly rare", isn't it?

and the auditors find that it had been improperly manipulated and data deleted,

Nope, that report was bollocks.

The people of the USA expect #1 holds but the law operates on #2.

The law operates nearer to 1. Transparently false claims of fraud don't mean that the law doesn't investigate election fraud where it might have happened, especially where it might have made a difference.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You might have to link me to that ruling.

I linked to the written dissent that gives the relevant details. If you want the original ruling, you can find it yourself.

The Reuters article you mentioned is inaccurate as it describes the case being about counting "mail-in ballots that were postmarked by Election Day" but that is incorrect. Both NPR and PBS reported that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court allowed ballots without postmarks to be counted even if they arrived after election day. The SCOTUS allowed that ruling to stand.

So in 2020 Pennsylvania was counting mail-in ballots that arrived after election day without postmarks. Two years later the Pennsylvania Supreme Court changed their mind and ruled that undated ballots don't count in the 2022 midterms.

All I can find is that they refused to hear the case.

Right. That's the point: almost none of the cases have been heard by the courts. The courts typically refuse to hear them. Almost none of the fraud claims have been genuinely judged on their merits.

Which case is the one you reckon is about the 2020 election?

Page 25 onwards.

That was an out of court settlement.

Yes, you are correct, I confused myself. Sorry.

there were victims who suffered financial loss.

Since the case never actually got decided on its merits, it is impossible to say that there were victims who suffered financial loss. Dominion may claim that they suffered financial loss, but they haven't had to prove it, and its frankly a ludicrous claim. The people who most believed Fox's claims are not customers of Dominion, or potential customers. They're just voters, whose opinions don't count and don't matter.

Dominion's claims for damages are based on a report they paid for, half of which remains under seal. The half that has been made public seems to have over-valued Dominion to a ludicrous degree, e.g. claiming that the company's value increased by a factor of 10 in less than two years (that's 450% growth per year!), and claiming without evidence that they had to abandon "growth opportunities" worth $643 million. Dominion CEO John Poulos claimed that the company expects to lose customers and is unlikely to stay in business, but since 2020 Dominion has increased its market share of the voting machine market, so I'm rating Poulos' claim Five Pinocchios. NPR found that Dominion machines will be used in 1861 U.S. jurisdictions in 2024, 700 more than in 2020. That's sixty percent growth in two years, during a time that Dominion is crying that nasty old Fox is going to put them out of business.

It seems that claims of election fraud has been very good for Dominion and its shareholders. They should pay Fox to defame them some more.

You should have let fox know.

Fox knows. They could have fought the case if they wanted to. Hell, they could have bought Dominion out.

For Fox, $787.5 million is not a lot of money:

  • Their revenue is about $12-15 billion a year.
  • The company is valued at $15.27 billion, and enterprise value of $18.33 billion.
  • They keep cash reserves of $4 billion.

If they wanted to bolster the Democrats or Never Trumpers in the Republican Party, and hurt Trump's re-election chances, giving Dominion $787.5 million and filling the media with a thousand stories about "Fox admits election fraud claims are a lie" is money well-spent.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If you want the original ruling, you can find it yourself.

Okay, The reason I can't find it I suspect is because it doesn't exist.

Do you accept that you're mistaken about that?

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Are you seriously saying that SCOTUS judges wrote dissents about a ruling that doesn't exist?

Whatever crack you are smoking, you need to cut back.

The dissents both reference the cases involved. Look them up yourself.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Are you seriously saying that SCOTUS judges wrote dissents about a ruling that doesn't exist?

Nope. I'm saying that the case in which "[t]he SCOTUS ruled that swing states had illegally counted invalid ballots and that this likely swung the result from Trump to Biden" doesn't exist.

Because the SCOTUS obviously never ruled that.

Whatever crack you are smoking, you need to cut back.

Oh the irony:

"Counties reported that only 9,428 ballots were received within the three-day extension at issue, and only 669 of those lacked a legible postmark. This tiny number of ballots is insufficient to affect any federal race." - https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/20/20-542/162063/20201130140620945_RPP%20Opp%20Cert%20v.FINAL.pdf

How much crack you have have to smoke to get from that to "this likely swung the result from Trump to Biden"?

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    though I am not sure I understand the first sentence.

    Fair enough. I missed the clause that said the UK system was better.

    I think the reform of police practices in the US is necessary, as well as a reform of gun laws (as the vast majority in the US note they want via surveys).

    Russian infiltration of the US extreme right, and the NRA has aligned the profits of gun manufacturers with the entire republican party. It's fucking nuts. The second amendment is about being able to form a well regulated militia. It specifically says well regulated, and it specifically says for the security of a free State.

    It doesn't say every psychopath and his dog has the right to an AR-15 with a grenade launcher.