Another man shot and killed by HPD officer after stealing Taser during traffic stop

submitted by magnora7 from (msn.com)

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[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

A drunk guy fights a cop for his weapon, gains control of the weapon, and then is shot, and this is police misconduct? Sounds more like stupid games stupid prizes to me. Stupid games and blue man bad. There's real police misconduct out there, ginning up stories like this only makes people skeptical when they read about real misconduct.

[–]magnora7[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

German police kill 0-1 people per year. UK police kill about 1 person per year. US police kill 1100 per year. How this is considered an acceptable state of affairs is beyond my comprehension.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I completely agree. I'm about as anti-cop as they come, but fighting with the police for their weapon is suicide, not police misconduct. Let's not forget the misconduct of the 'victim' in this story, driving drunk and fighting for a cops' weapon in order to stave off what, a justly earned DUI? There's a plethora of legitimate cases of police misconduct right here in this sub, but this is simply not one.

I take issue with this stuff because it's like Trump hate. There are legitimate reasons to dislike Trump, but the repeated cries of he's racist and a Nazi are not legitimate. It's muddy water. It's sensible to hate cops, Trump, corporatists, etc for the actual evil things they do. That any time a cop shoots someone amounts to misconduct just is not true. I hate cops, but everytime I've been arrested, I never fought them, and never got shot.

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

that does look pretty bad, but just to be sure what I'm looking at, what is it per capita? doesn't the US have a significantly larger population?

[–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Yes but the US is not 1100x larger... it's around 4-5x larger. Uk is 66M, Germany is 83M, US is 330M. So even per capita it's way out of whack.

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

[USA is] around 4-5x larger. [...] So even per capita it's way out of whack.

Thanks, unfortunate reality but good to know. But hey, maybe that means we can learn from Germany and the UK if they've managed to be more successful in this regard, hopefully without also sacrificing anything important in their ability to successfully police?

[–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

But hey, maybe that means we can learn from Germany and the UK if they've managed to be more successful in this regard, hopefully without also sacrificing anything important in their ability to successfully police?

Yes I agree, that's the takeaway here. I think Switzerland is a great model too because guns are extremely common there yet they still have a very low-kill-rate police force. I think in the US the problems are police training is too short and too oriented around avoiding liability rather than de-escalation, non-fatal captures, and community support. There are lots of other problems too, but I think the bad training and lax standards for police is a key problem in the US.

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

TIL about Switzerland & good results even with guns, ty.

I think in the US the problems are police training is too short and too oriented around avoiding liability rather than de-escalation, non-fatal captures, and community support.

well that's pretty specific... let's get to fixing it?

[–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

well that's pretty specific... let's get to fixing it?

Agreed! Raising awareness when possible is good, but ultimately a lobbying organization would be needed to change the law and change police training. But if enough people want it, the funding for the lobbying will materialize.

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm pretty sure enough people want it... but the world is a bit different now with covid in terms of securing funding and priorities and stuff. I guess I feel we ought if possible to concentrate on that more for the time being, and basic food security and stuff, but let's remember about this when things are more secure again.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes that's probably true, let's hope we have the luxury of being able to wait that long.

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There's real police misconduct out there

I agree, this is very sad and maybe there is a way to prevent things like this in the future but this doesn't seem out of line on the part of the officer. Can't a taser incapacitate? What could have happened to the officer if they'd been tased by the the person at the traffic stop?

Police say the officer's body cam and dash cam were recording during the incident.

glad there will (hopefully) be clear evidence of what happened, the body cam and dash cam being present is a positive result of the effort to improve police accountability, right?

Police misconduct is absolutely horrible when it happens, but equally honest officers literally risk their lives to keep us all safe every day.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Police misconduct is absolutely horrible when it happens, but equally honest officers literally risk their lives to keep us all safe every day.

That's the nuance that matters. It's easy to hate on cops. The evidence that the police are used as a standing army on American soil to fight the war on freedom is staggering. But we gotta keep in mind that most people that join the police are as ignorant of the overarching power struggles as anyone else. Some of them are decent. Some are stupid, and some are outright murderers. Just like the rest of us.

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some of them are decent. Some are stupid, and some are outright murderers. Just like the rest of us.

yeah. And also unlike the rest of us, they're, well, literally risking their lives every day. Their job is very dangerous. Frankly that's probably something we should work on improving too, just like we make sure medical workers have adequate PPE when dealing with dangerous infectious diseases. I feel uncomfortable with getting others to do dangerous stuff for me as police in a similar way as I feel uncomfortable offloading risk to other people who are probably doing it for money because they don't want to starve, at least in part. It doesn't strike me as quite right.

I don't like the cop hating. I think accountability and cooperation is a better tak, maybe I don't know the full story about what's going on with police, but an honest cop should be as beloved as a corrupt one is hated. Maybe even moreso, an honest cop is part of what's standing in between me and not just violent criminals, but also corrupt cops. I would love to come up with a better system to shape behavior so that we're all safer, but until we have that, well, I'm very grateful for any help I get protecting myself, y'know? It's not like there aren't violent criminals in the world and it seems like they genuinely do protect me from them.

I saw a (blackish) guy get arrested a little while ago outside my (mostly whiteish/asian-ish/"nice" neighborhood) house. They were just talking to him at first, and I was glued to the window the whole time, watching, wanting to make sure I saw if they did something they weren't supposed to do, like I hear about all the time. They talked for a long time and eventually to my surprise arrested him, and later it was revealed he was wanted for something else. The cops didn't do anything wrong, as far as I could tell. No struggle, no hitting, no nothing, just discussion, orderly, correctly-performed cuffing, and guiding him into the police car. I felt mixed feelings for being so suspicious of the cops doing their job to protect me, and for being so trusting and protective of the random guy going around the neighborhood.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Allow me to offer a different perspective on the situation. First off, I do not believe this was police misconduct, however, I do believe is was a poor judgement call. Police issued tasers have 1 shot, and he discharged it already. This is literally the equivalent of a bad guy running out of bullets then throwing the gun at Superman. While the man could have bludgeoned the cop with the discharged taser, He was possibly intoxicated and most likely lacking the coordination to avoid a trained officers takedown if the cop really wanted this guy on the ground. I believe it would be a little different if they guy managed to get it with the full load still on it- he could have wrecked havoc. But, the taser and pistol both have a level 3 retention system to make it damn near impossible to get their weapon unless you are a professional pick pocket or something.