Why do feminists love bdsm and sex work so much?? How someone can be this brainwashed to not see that this is opressive to women??

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[–]Camberian 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Firstly, women in BDSM do not automatically get assigned some passive (submissive, masochistic, bottom) role by the BDSM community. When women (and men) enter the community, they choose their own roles, and among those who experience their affinity early, the spread is even. You get about as many men and women into active and passive roles, and also a large number of people who switch roles regularly.

The disparity is somewhere else: more people (both men AND women) prefer passive roles, rather than active roles.

Secondly, of course you don't "get it". To understand BDSM you'd have to first acknowledge that this is a(n often sexual) affinity to certain physical and psychological sensations people of either sex experience involuntarily, yet live out fully consensually. They do not have a choice about whether or not they have that affinity.

The other thing you need to grasp is that people feel satisfied, feel better when able to live out their predilection. I've whipped both men and women, and - apart from minor physiological differences - both react similar and both physically and mentally ENJOY what I do. Just as much as I enjoy it.

By the way, I do not knowingly play with abuse or rape victims, I do not consider BDSM a means for therapy (this appears to be a very American thing), and I suggest to fellow players who have abuse or rape in their past, that before they engage in BDSM they should get therapy.

Lastly, as long as you view BDSM as an extension of abuse or rape, instead for what it is, you actively keep yourself from any chance of understanding it. Or in other words, you behave exactly like people used to behave towards lesbians and homosexuals before they became civilised enough to acknowledge that this is nothing people can stop themselves from being or doing or wanting.

[–]worried19 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Given that these are your beliefs, I don't see how you can consider yourself a radical feminist.

That's all I've got to say.

[–]wheelyfebfem 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

supporting bdsm is counteractive to being a radical feminist. Bdsm is inherently toxic as it romanticizes abuse. It's disgusting even on a radfem form you find defenders of it here.

[–]Camberian 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Why would me being a BDSMer negate my radical feminism? The radical feminism I live, respects the aspects of people they can't and need not change. I can't change the fact that I am female any more than I can change the fact that I am a BDSMer.

[–]worried19 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, radical feminism opposes what you are doing. I don't want to get into some big argument about whether you were born that way because I highly doubt you could be convinced otherwise, but the stripe of feminism you're claiming to follow doesn't match with that belief.

[–]Portrynial 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I can see both sides of this. I'm also into playing the domme/bdsm role (only with men, I can't imagine wanting a woman to play a sub) and at the same time I'm getting more interested in radical feminism, because it's the only kind of feminism that actually cares about women and our serious issues.

Just speaking for myself, I don't know if I could be called a radical feminist, I don't know if I fit perfectly due to morale. But maybe that imperfection shouldn't get in the way of dealing with those more serious issues. I could be wrong.

But I don't think it's productive to complain to radical feminists about their non-acceptance of bdsm. It's understandable how they're against it, they're allowed to disagree. Whether they agree with your fetish is not a serious issue. And women are already always being told they're wrong for what they believe in. In recent times, there's already a mainstream acceptance of kinks. So there probably isn't a need to convince a small minority that disagrees.

I personally don't consider my kinks "empowering" or a form of feminism. I see them similar to enjoying drinking beer or smoking. Not every lifestyle choice needs to be praised.

I actually agree with a lot of reasons for being anti-kink. In theory, bdsm can be "safe, sane and consensual" as they used to say. That's how I want it to be, too.

But aside from that, most of the modern bdsm "community", and in real experiences, tends to be gross guys trying to push the boundaries of women, or get away with abusing them. A lot of what they claim to be consent, might not actually be consent. I don't believe people who make it sound like all bdsm is fine.

I've seen so many examples of this in porn titles, and how people talk about the topic online. Also how "vanilla" is now considered prudish. Judging it like that, creates an atmosphere of boundary pushing.

A lot of men into bdsm have an instant assumption that women are supposed to be "submissives." Some guys who call themselves "doms" will contact female doms, to try to convince the female dom that she should instead be a sub. I've experienced this.

I think the pro-kink outlook was supposed to be, that there's nothing wrong with you if you find something erotic, that may be considered strange. As long as it's not illegal or doesn't harm anyone. It's to help people feel comfortable with their sexuality, especially if they're surrounded by an uncomfortably conservative community.

However, gross males have still turned bdsm into something repulsive, most of the time. I suspect most of that community is toxic.

I assume that it's not comparatively that important to argue for your private interest in consensual kinks. There are more important issues. It would be more important to argue for pro-abortion rights, for protecting women from violence.

[–]worried19 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm not the fucking bedroom police, but it's annoying how BDSM apologists come out of the woodwork any time a woman dares to criticize what they do, even on a radical feminist sub. Liberal feminists already won. They've already conquered the mainstream. They've already convinced the world that women are born submissive and that there's nothing even slightly problematic with men beating women in a sexual context as long as the so-called magical "consent" is involved. The fact that they keep digging the knife in over and over is just insult to injury.

Young girls are already doomed because they've been convinced by porn that this is their nature. That if a man wants to choke them or slap them around, there's nothing wrong with him, and that any woman who believes otherwise doesn't understand it's just "fun and games." I had people on Reddit tell me I was crazy, tell me that I was in the wrong because I said I would not tolerate domination or violence. I was called a prude, I was told I "have issues," I was made to feel that I was insane for saying I would file charges on a sex partner who strangled me or hit me without my consent. That's how normalized it is. That the proper response to a man hitting you or wrapping his hands around your throat is to meekly say "no" and accept what he did, rather than hold him accountable for what is a legally considered an assault.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We got to the point where loving, sensual and affectionate sex without any type of abuse is considered boring and 'vanilla" :)

[–]Portrynial 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I agree. That's messed up that people said that stuff to you! Obviously you don't "have issues" just because you're against violence. I am sick of people. They can't just make it a rule that everything goes, and you're a prude if you're not ok with that. That is some creepy gaslighting. Anyone who assumes it's ok to assault a woman because it's supposed to be no big deal, it's just "bdsm." Without even asking her if she wants that "bdsm" play, that's committing literal violence.