all 11 comments

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I really think now that fascism was a specifically Italian cultural phenomenon and really the similar movements in other countries need their own names and we need another overarching name for this family of movements.

I mean there's resurgence of fascism in Italy right now and that party clearly has many socialist and working class focused policies in the mix.

I've also seen people say that non-European movements like the Ba'ath party or ISIS can't be fascist even though they are often a very close fit.

Maybe the term ur-facism is better for non Italian movements, as Umberto Eco used. https://web.archive.org/web/20170131155837/http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

Edit: actually having read through the list CRT ticks a whole lot of those boxes.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Tagging left-wing socialist movements of pre-WWII as "right-wing" was just a desperate rear-guard aktion by the left to avoid being stained with the blood and misery they caused. It was always iffy, but now that they got the dictionaries to change their meaning, explicitly tagging "right-wing" as the definition of fascism, it appears it has worked.

That's what Ingsoc, the villain of George Orwell's 1984, was doing - redefining words to suit their purposes.

[–]Noam_Chomsky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism

The word fascism comes from the Latin fasces, which denotes a bundle of wooden rods that typically included a protruding axe blade.

https://symbolsage.com/fasces-symbol/

From France to the U.S. fasces symbols were frequently present in various governmental seals and documents. The Les Grands Palais de France: Fontainebleau, the reverse side of the U.S. Mercury Dime, and even in the Oval Office in the White House – the fasces is a frequently-seen symbol of unity and authority.

What's rarely acknowledge is that the fasces is a symbol of unity among the oligarchy.

It's no surprise that so many pretend that "fascism" is seemingly difficult for a propagandist media to define.
It's oligarchical control of government.

United; the oligarchy stands against the people.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What's rarely acknowledge is that the fasces is a symbol of unity among the oligarchy.

Really? I never heard that. You sure you didn't just make it up?

It's oligarchical control of government.

That's not what fascism is. Please read: "Given what most people today think they know about Fascism, this bare recital of facts (12) is a mystery story. How can a movement which epitomizes the extreme right be so strongly rooted in the extreme left? What was going on in the minds of dedicated socialist militants to turn them into equally dedicated Fascist militants?"

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm

The Doctrine of Fascism

Although written in 1927 by Mussolini with the help of Giovanni Gentile, “The Political and Social Doctrine of Fascism” was first published in 1932 in the fourteenth volume of the Enciclopedia Italiana, of which supposedly all copies were destroyed before the end of World War II. Jane Soames’ 1933 translation was published as a 26-page booklet by Leonard and Virginia Woolf at the Hogarth Press, London. The booklet was one in a series of booklets printed by Hogarth Press, labeled “Day to Day Pamphlet No. 18”. It is the first authorized English translation of Benito Mussolini’s “The Political and Social Doctrine of Fascism.” A number of other books and publications of the era also used parts of Jane Soames’ translation, including President Herbert Hoover in his 1934 book Challenge to Liberty.[8] Hoover went on to describe Mussolini’s Fascism as having features in common with Socialism, Communism and Nazism.[9]

The Controversy

Most historians agree that historical Italian Fascism was a mixed bag of right-wing and left-wing socio-economic policies. But recent evidence has shed new light on the underpinnings of Italian Fascism, discovering that this totalitarian state had embodied a far more collectivistic, socialist and progressive ideology.

https://fascistcontroversies.weebly.com

Banned from Wikipedia so you know it's good.

[–]Noam_Chomsky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Really? I never heard that. You sure you didn't just make it up?

I couldn't help noticing that you failed to include a definition of fascism in your response.

Most historians agree that historical Italian Fascism was a mixed bag of right-wing and left-wing socio-economic policies.

This isn't a mystery for anyone who understands the nature of oligarchy, and fascism.

The Italian oligarchs were able to pick and choose which policies best suited them.

Don't forget that the USSR had it's oligarchs, as well. Plus, they were financed by the western banksters, which is the visible apex of oligarchy.

Similar to what is happening with the entire world right now.

Global fascism is currently demolishing the global working class; using the pretext, "because of covid" for everything.

Rules for thee, but not for me...

They even have the slaves wearing masks!

This includes the politician slaves when they're in public.

This would be obvious to anyone who wasn't forced to endure 12 years of state mandated education brainwashing during their formative years.

Edit: You know what I'm saying is true, but you still haven't connected the dots.

https://saidit.net/s/politics/comments/8dtx/the_masking_of_the_servant_class_ugly_covid/

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Oh I see. You're just making up a definition of fascism and using that to apply to whatever you don't like. Distressingly common on the left.

[–]Noam_Chomsky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I couldn't help noticing that you failed to include a definition of fascism in your response.

Official narratives about extreme right wing fascism, except for the Nazis were self declared left wingers.

The national socialist workers party.
The Nazis were environmentalists.

Where are the right wing policies??

You're just making up a definition of fascism and using that to apply to whatever you don't like.

I'm applying simple historical evidence, and connecting to the apparent symbolism which it is globally associated with.

The oligarchical symbol of the fasces. Just like the slave-owning, ruling class in Rome.

Distressingly common on the left.

I don't disagree.

However, you've provided a meaninglessly confusing copy pasta.

Your functionally absent "fascism" pseudo-definition is deliberately convoluted to create the illusion of a meaning.

Those fancy words fooled you into believing someone smarter than you (which includes most of the population) knew the answer.

The ignorance of those like yourself helps keep the ball rolling among the divided/conquered. The alleged "right" and the "left".
Both owned by deep state oligarchy.

Show me a "democracy" with "elections", and I'll show you a fascist state with a candidate selection process.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The Nazis didn't practice fascism. They practiced national socialism.

Show me a "democracy" with "elections", and I'll show you a fascist state with a candidate selection process.

LOL this is a garden variety, boring far left criticism of electoralism. How dull.

[–]Noam_Chomsky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm still waiting for you to provide a definition for fascism.

[–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

[–]Noam_Chomsky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah.
Banned from Wikipedia means the state of Israel doesn't like it.