all 31 comments

[–]Zombi 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

People saying he should buy his child a sex toy are completely missing the point. He's not "repressing her sexuality" by not buying her a dildo, what the fuck. The kid can use her hands just like every other kid her age. Sexually repressing her would be making her wear a chastity belt. How fucking weird do you have to be to think giving your kid a sex toy is in any way OK? Let alone a 12 year old. This is exactly why I left reddit.

Imagine buying your mom a dildo. Imagine buying your dad a fleshlight. It's sort of crossing a line. Again, I just wanna reiterate that I understand 12 year olds are learning about this stuff and sure, maybe a talk is in order. There's a mountain of difference between speaking to your child about safe sex and masturbation and buying them a dildo, though. The kid isn't going to be traumatized by having to resort to showerheads and toothbrushes. She'll be fine without the dildo meant for adults that are 18+.

[–]toxic_masculinity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

if i understand the FAKE story correctly, the girl was buying it for herself until dad intervened.

[–]Zombi 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The fact it's fake has nothing to do with the point I'm making. The girl was buying it for herself, then the wife said they should buy it for her. My main point was in reference to the people actively encouraging him to buy it for her, literally saying he should be ashamed if he doesn't.

[–]toxic_masculinity 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

stop policing masterbation.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

These parents shouldn't be pressured into buying their kid a dildo.

She can roll the bean like every other girl that's into it.

[–]catlover1019 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Turns out the post was fake anyway, but that's beside the point. (Pretending it was real,) they asked a question on Reddit, and people gave their honest opinions. That's exactly how it's supposed to work. Also, in the scenario given, one of the parents was already willing to do it, and the other was being a dick about it. See my comment here for more of my thoughts.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

For the sake of the argument let's consider your argument in a different context.

If a suicidal person posts a question about whether or not they should commit suicide, should people be criticised for advocating for suicide if they believe that is the correct course of action?

Would you consider condemning this advice justifiable?

Are you suggesting that mob-rule morality is a viable source for advice?

[–]catlover1019 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That's why I also made sure to argue that what was being advised was not immoral.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Would you argue that is ok for a girls stepfather to give her a dildo?

[–]catlover1019 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sure, what does that make any difference?

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ok. I get it. Nice trolling.

You got me.

[–]catlover1019 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nope. Not trolling. It's more than possible (even likely in many cases) that a girl's stepfather be more of a father to her than her biological one, what does genetic relation make any difference?

I also disagree with some of the fundamental assumptions that this line of reasoning clearly has, but I don't want to upset the saidit "pedo police". They'll say I'm "sexualizing children" by giving me full, real opinions, which is (now as of a couple days ago where they edited a rule just to target a friend of mine) verboten.

[–]poestal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You think it’s fine for 12 year olds to view pornography? I don’t think it should be normalized for a child to be using vibrating sex toys which the internet searches alone for will bring up a plethora of search results accompanied by other things she can’t grasp. As her father he absolutely has a right to dictate what she should be able to view on the internet and saying otherwise is absurd. On the other hand OP can handle the situation better so he doesn’t make it seem like his daughter should be ashamed by her sexuality and have both parents sit down and talk through this situation in depth and show that exploring these feelings is healthy. But letting a 12 year old roam the internet for porn and vibrators alone is ludicrous. OP does not, in fact, have to support the fact that his 12 year old wants a vibrator... that doesn’t make him some tyrannical patriarch, it means he doesn’t believe his 12 year old is ready for that sort of thing and in general I think it would be hard for any father to grasp with a daughter of that age. That’s my 2 cents.

[–]catlover1019 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

As a father he has exactly as much right as the mother to dictate what their daughter should be able to view on the internet. How much that right is is really up for interpretation.

If "accidentally" finding porn is really a concern, then the parents could do the actual buying part themselves. However, I have no reason to believe that porn is harmful to children, at least not in any other sense than that it might give them false expectations. These just need to be tempered.

Chances are that if she wants a vibrator, she's already well-versed in porn, at least the type she currently enjoys, being a gen-z-er is likely is written or illustrated form, which is a lot easier to see as fictional, and not build expectations for sex around it anyway.

Kids that age masturbate ll the time. I sure did. I always just used my right hand, which was good enough for me, being a guy, but I don't see how using better tools could somehow make it bad or harmful. Also, "he" (post is fake) went on Reddit, and asked the question. If he didn't think his parental "authority" would be challenged, than he obviously had no idea how the internet works.

I'm firmly of the option that the freedoms of children should only be limited when absolutely necessary, which I don't think it is at all here. I think it's just the BS "sex s for adults" mentality at work, that makes him see his daughter as somehow a non-sexual being, which is just silly.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I doubt that what you're saying is true.

CPS would almost certainly consider exposure to porn a form of sexual abuse.

[–]catlover1019 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I doubt that what you're saying is true.

I'm unsure where I made any real claims that could be considered "wrong." I was mostly just stating my own opinions. If you're talking about 12-year-olds commonly masturbating, then I can assure you that's true. I was 12 relatively recently (about 8 years ago), and that's when I started. I've always had the impression that that was pretty common, at least for my generation.

CPS would almost certainly consider exposure to porn a form of sexual abuse.

Maybe, maybe not, it's hardly news that the government has stupid views on sex.

[–]poestal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm firmly of the option that the freedoms of children should only be limited when absolutely necessary, which I don't think it is at all here.

children need structure, guidance, and boundaries in place. you are a parent, their "caregiver" not their friend. if they have full reigns on how to be raised then it's going to be nothing more than junkfood dinners and videogames over homework and proceeds to get worse as they age. if you chose to let a child to dictate your household and let themselves rule then you are no longer a caregiver or parent.

[–]catlover1019 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Keeping their future on track is something I would consider necessary. What's not necessary and should absolutly be avoided is arbitrary restrictions that don't exist to ensure the child has a good future, or to keep them safe.

[–]toxic_masculinity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so we are shifting from dildoes to porn in our adult obsession with 12 year olds masturbating. okay. Maybe you should tie your childrens hands to the bed posts -or do you promote self abuse? /s

[–]catlover1019 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Explain to me what's so bad about buying kids sex toys. They're gonna masturbate anyways, why not make sure they do it with products designed or it? I'm a guy, and not really into butt play, so I always did fine with just my right hand, but not everyone's in that position. Penetration is really best done with objects designed for it (or both safety and pleasure) rather than with random household objects which is what kids would end up using if they didn't have access to sex toys.

[–]poestal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Explain to me what's so bad about buying kids sex toys. They're gonna masturbate anyways, why not make sure they do it with products designed or it.

change the word sex toy to pornography or sex, and you would see how ludicrous this sounds. their are certain things that a child should not be shown or advocated to do when their brain is still developing or until age appropriate. also their is a huge desensitization with adolescents about pornography within the modern world to the point where they go into further taboo subjects and vanilla sex is no longer satisfying.

let me be clear; im totally ok with the "birds and the bees talk" and whats going on with their body, but not childs first dildo type of parenting.

[–]catlover1019 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Masturbation is not harmful, I don't care how young the person in question is. Things become safer when they're condoned and educated-about.

My view on kinkiness and the internet is that the internet mostly makes it easier for people to discover their kinks, and those who already know about them realize they don't have to settle for "vanilla sex."

Whether something is taboo has nothing to do with whether they are actually immoral. Things that are immoral cause harm to animals (human and otherwise). If something doesn't fit that bill, it can't be considered immoral.

[–]happysmash27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What's wrong with pornography, of all things? That sounds even more absurd!

…wait a minute; I think asked this before. It's because of unrealistic expectations, right? That would mean many Disney films would be just as bad though, as they also foster unrealistic sexual expectations. Plus, there is lots of pornographic content online that doesn't foster very crazy expectations too.

The Usonian taboo against sex has confused me for a long time; it gave me an impression that all sex, including sex for reproduction, was somehow bad, and it took me a while to grow out of that.

[–]poestal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

what no, thats not what I was getting at at all. what i'm saying is that because of the internet younger adolescents have been desencitized due to the pornographic content at such a young age that just like a drug addict; look for stronger more provocative content in order to satisfy the urge. That children at certain ages should not be condoned to participate or engage in activities due to their immaturity and not able to grasp those concepts essentially corrupting a childs thinking because of it.

thats why in school there is age appropriate content in teaching because you don't show 5 year olds the atrocities of war.

[–]toxic_masculinity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

lets say you are right about not showing atrocity footage to 5 year olds -we are talking about 12 year olds masturbating. Masturbation is eminently appropriate to 12 year olds. and so are the tools of the trade, more or less.

[–]happysmash27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the clarification :) ; I have upvoted for this, although I'm not sure if I agree yet.

[–]toxic_masculinity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

i think kids learn a lot of important things from porn.

And kids enjoy it.

we dont protect children from strong flavors or bright colors or intense music.

dont worry about their sexual pleasure. curate their experiences but dont enforce taboos.

[–]TimesThreeTheHighest 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

A tempest in a teapot. Even in sexually obsessed/morally conflicted America I doubt most kids would even think along those lines. I have two daughters myself, and I just can't imagine that happening.

[–]toxic_masculinity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

i hear what you are saying but arent you comically recapitulating every parent's fantasy about the innocence of their children? every generation falls to the same fantasy and are astonished when their daughters end up pregnant.

[–]TimesThreeTheHighest 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What fantasy? It's just never come up.