Breast Mourning

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[–]brimshae 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (93 children)

The proportion of people that want to de-transition is in the vicinity of 1%

Now do the percentage of people that de-transition from being alive.

[–]MythOfPrivilege 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Their new pronouns are Was/Were.

[–]Musky[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hahahahahaaaa! That's so good. Well done, sir.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (90 children)

The reason gender affirmation treatment has become the standard way of treating gender dysphoria, is because is has vastly better outcomes wrt mental health including suicidal ideation.

Dealing with the mocking such as the sort of posts you see here a lot, does put a different kind of pressure on transgender people. So there are external influences that can affect depression and suicidal ideation after the fact.

One of the downsides of parts of the world with heavy metal pollution in the water or less than ideal genetic variation in the residents.

[–]jet199 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Nope the reason is political pressure. There's no evidence or stops suicide. There was never a risk of suicide for gender non conforming kids, the risk was middle aged men who transioned. The kids are just being used by the latter group.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's no evidence or stops suicide.

There's a stack of evidence. I posted a link to a meta analysis of over 50 papers in this thread.

[–]Vulptex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (77 children)

Gender affirmation is just denial. In order to have a real solution we need to have a real cure.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (76 children)

Gender affirmation is just denial.

It has the best outcomes.

In order to have a real solution we need to have a real cure.

Until we can grow a new body that matches the brain and connect it up, we'll have to make do with what we can do that has the best outcomes.

[–]jet199 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

What do you mean a body which matches the brain?

Trans people don't have different brains to anyone else if their sex and sexuality.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/

The only brain difference between trans and everyone else is they are disassociated from their bodies.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23230954-600-transgender-people-have-different-brain-activity-when-touched/

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not all psychology can be measured with magnetoencephalography. Only rough activity of large areas of the brain.

It's all in there though.

[–]Musky[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think they're talking about the fMRI data that is essentially useless garbage. Those scans detect brain activity in dead fish.

[–]Questionable 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (48 children)

It has the best outcomes.

???

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

Compared with not transitioning.

[–]Questionable 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

Yes. Did you see the link? Because I know what you are comparing it too. But the outcome is suicide. Is that your "best outcome" in your comparison?

???<------------- See that? That's a link. You click on it!

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (45 children)

Oh for fucks sake. Do you want to read your own fucking link, or do we need to go through which two groups it is comparing together?

[–]Questionable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

No. I just wish for you to comprehend. I'm not asking a lot I know. But it is what I wish for.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (43 children)

So when I say "compared to not transitioning" I mean that the transitioning has better outcomes than not transitioning.

The reason I said that is that your link, which I clicked on does not compare transitioning with not transitioning. It just looks at interpersonal factors related to suicide in transgender people.

I see you didn't pick this up, because you mistook my comment for an irrelevant one.

You should read your own links before assuming I haven't, because it exposes you for an idiot.

[–]Vulptex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

And currently the "best outcomes" are barely an improvement.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Did you do any form of transitioning at any point vulptex?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, because in my case it would make a mess and leave me worse off than I already am. Disguising myself and being in denial is not going to work for me. I'd have to actually go back and change history.

If you think this is about my identity you are deceived by liberal gender theorists, as are most people. To hell with what other people think I am. How's that going to help me any? That's like trying to treat depression with "just deal with it and act happy" (which actually is what therapists usually say). Maybe I'm just an underdeveloped human, but it seems reasonable that what I actually is experience is far more important than maintaining some phony social identity. But somehow 99.9% of other people strongly disagree, and I can't even begin to comprehend why. Probably because of matrix brainwashing.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, because in my case it would make a mess and leave me worse off than I already am.

Do you mind me asking what's unusual about your case?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nothing. I'm the norm, especially for my desired direction, which is why this is such a horrible disease. We simply can't be helped. HRT can help a little, but please. We all know it doesn't work well enough and only delays the inevitable.

Of course the data is extremely skewed by all the transtrenders, who now make up the vast majority. They don't even take hormones because it makes them "feel weird" and they don't want any of the changes. Unless they're AGP and want to develop certain body parts to play with, then they take just enough to get that and stop. The rest is just signing up for reddit and becoming a powermod.

My guess is most of these people are simply misled or find it easier to be seen as a certain gender due to sexism. Fine I guess, but can we stop pretending it's the same thing? If sexism were to disappear completely, the transition rate would probably drop to a mere fraction of what it is now.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

row a new body that matches the brain and connect it up

So, your claim is they have the "wrong" soul in their body? This is a religious claim.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Nope. Brain.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Wait, are you actually claiming they have a literal "wrong" brain in their body?! I must be misunderstanding you.

[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I'm saying the brain and body's gender are not aligned in patients who are transsexual or who have gender dysphoria.

Sometimes the physical gender will also be indeterminate or intermediate between male and female.

But the brain is another organ in which gender is exhibited, and sometimes that does match even when the physical gender appears clear. Hence "transsexual". You've heard the term?

[–]SerpensInferna 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Okay I'll bite.

What is gender?

What is male gender?

What is female gender?

Hit me with anything other than stereotypes and I'll give you a listen.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gender is being male or female. In the case of those that don't fit in either of those boxes, it's whatever they are.

Male gender is the gender that people who are male have. Female gender is the gender that people who are female have.

I'm failing to see what you're trying to get at with this line of questioning.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have issues with my biology but that's it. For the longest time I didn't even realize it was connected to sex until I noticed they're all sexually dimorphic characteristics.

I don't really know how to explain it though other than it just doesn't mesh with me. It's like not getting along with a person. The worst of it is actually in my cognitive functioning. It feels like my brain is a bunched of incompatible parts duct-taped together. But I also have a lot of other problems up there so I'm not sure how much of it is actually related to this.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

There is the body's sex. What is the brain gender? Again, just personality and interests, right? That's sexist to say people who like to wear makeup, be nurturing or like crafts must be female. It's sexist to say that all boundary violators, rapists and people who like wrestling must be men.

Transsexual are the men who had autogynephila or were homosexual transsexuals living in extremely homophobic communities that were ostracizing to them so it was easier to live pretending to be female than be a clear target as a potentially homosexual male? I've heard of them. They never thought they were female, and having a fetish or trauma in no way makes them female or anything like women.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What is the brain gender?

There are differences in desires and motivation, personality, aggression and sexuality in the brains of women compared to men.

Transsexual are the men who had autogynephila

Nope. That's men who have autogynephila.

r were homosexual transsexuals living in extremely homophobic communities that were ostracizing to them so it was easier to live pretending to be female than be a clear target as a potentially homosexual male?

That did happen and those are some of the few people who detransition or express regret over transitioning. Mostly it was their own homophobia that lead them to misunderstand and misdiagnose themselves.

If you get the diagnosis correct, the patient is happier, healthier and has better quality of life after transitioning. That's not the case for those two groups you mention.

[–]MythOfPrivilege 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not traumatizing your kid, or allowing them to be traumatized, has the best outcomes. Participation in this modern gender hysteria is 100% preventable.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not traumatizing your kid, or allowing them to be traumatized, has the best outcomes.

Including treating their gender dysphoria, if they have it.

Participation in this modern gender hysteria is 100% preventable.

Ignoring gender dysphoria, especially insisting that it doesn't exist traumatizes your kid.

[–]SerpensInferna 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No one is born into the wrong body with a mismatched brain. Such bullshit.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People are born with mixed genders. Sometimes the mismatch is between the body and brain's gender.

[–]brimshae 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

because is has vastly better outcomes wrt mental health including suicidal ideation.

No it fucking doesn't. Cutting off healthy body parts has zero positive impact on someone's life other than a short term feel-good measure that will last as long as it takes for reality to set in.

Serious question: Should people who think they'd live a better life without their legs be allowed to have their legs removed? Why or why not.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

No it fucking doesn't. Cutting off healthy body parts has zero positive impact on someone's life other than a short term feel-good measure that will last as long as it takes for reality to set in.

There's been studies done, and you're mistaken about that.

[–]brimshae 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Did you mean "Bränström, R., & Pachankis, J. (2019). Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study. American Journal Of Psychiatry, 177(8), 727-734."?

That had to be retracted for correction due to bad conclusions and methodology.

Anyway, you never answered the legs question, please answer it.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not the entire body of research.

There was a meta analysis last year combining 53 studies in the field.

It depends on the severity of the body integrity disorder. In the case of people who are very distressed by their legs will try to damage them beyond repair outside a hospital setting. That is a worse outcome than a surgical amputation.

And my understanding is that the outcomes for such people is improved psychological health and happiness, which is more important that not having to put on your prostheses in the morning.

Until we have a cure for body integrity disorder, I think that it makes sense to allow people suffering severely to have a elective amputation. But again you need to be confident of your diagnosis. If it isn't going to relieve the distress, its going to be a mistake.

Note that there's no similarity between that and HRT. Not every transsexual decides to get bottom surgery, because, I assume, the impact on sexual function.

[–]brimshae 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That is the longest-winded way to say "yes, I think we should cut off someone's healthy body parts" I've seen yet.

Why wouldn't we just treat the underlying mental illness instead of mutilating people?

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that there's no treatment for BID.

[–]brimshae 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Haloperidol and Pimozide were (and sometimes still are) treatments for BID. Wokeness shouted down the good science on those drugs, though.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If they work to the extent of stopping someone damaging their limb, then those would be preferable. (Assuming the side effects are better than having a prosthetic.)

Edit: I quick look on the internet suggests that there are treatments to help reduce the distress and depression associated with the condition, but there isn't anything that fully removes the desired to get rid of the limb.

So you still need to determine if the patient is going to try to amputate themselves unsafely. If so they're better off if an expert does it in safe conditions.

[–]SerpensInferna 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There is absolutely NO evidence whatsoever that affirmation treatment does any good for gender dysphoria. The sheer amount of detransitioners alone proves that.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Detransitioners are about 1%