Breast Mourning

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[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (177 children)

This is why it's important to get a correct diagnosis before starting HRT.

Which is why people get prescribed puberty blockers as an interim solution: A solution not without its side-effects, but at least it keeps people alive.

They're getting it right in the vast majority of cases though. The proportion of people that want to de-transition is in the vicinity of 1%, and it looks to me like it's broadly improving with time.

[–]jet199 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Puberty blockers are not an interim solution. They stop the brain maturing, drop IQ and 99% of those who are given puberty blockers go on to cross sex hormones (compared 5-15% if blockers aren't used). It's not just the body which changes during puberty, the brain aslo matures. They stop the brain maturing so a person is trapped with a child like brain and so can't make adult decisions.

https://www.hormonesmatter.com/lupron-precocious-puberty-decades-regulatory-silence/

[–]Musky[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so a person is trapped with a child like brain and so can't make adult decisions.

I feel like that anyways sometimes. Wanna come hide from the world with me in my pillow fort?

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

99% of those who are given puberty blockers go on to cross sex hormones

So it's an interim solution?

They stop the brain maturing,

What's your source for that?

What do you mean by "brain maturing"? Is the capacity to learn quickly extended? Or do you get adults throwing temper tantrums like Donald Trump?

drop IQ

Do you have a source for this for transgender patients?

I'm aware of the paper you link to for precocious puberty, but transgender patients would be taking them at a later stage of their development, and I'm not aware that there's a consensus on any iq drop in that context.

and 99% of those who are given puberty blockers go on to cross sex hormones (compared 5-15% if blockers aren't used).

It'd be interesting to read that paper too. It seems implausible that they're the same group. To be prescribed puberty blockers, you need to show significant gender dysphoria. To not be prescribed puberty blockers, all you need to be is normal.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn't call my brain maturation an improvement. In fact that's the worst part of gender dysphoria, because it prevents me from even thinking and feeling like myself. In any case I think kids are actually a lot smarter than adults if they only had a chance to grow. Age seems to correlate with NPCness (not that it isn't bad enough from the start). If the IQ thing were actually true then people with androgen insensitivity syndrome would all be mentally handicapped.

[–]Musky[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

This is why it's important to get a correct diagnosis before starting HRT.

I'm not sure gender identity theory is ever the correct path. It's highly questionable.

Which is why people get prescribed puberty blockers as an interim solution

Puberty blockers and HRT both cause irreversible changes. It's not theoretical or academic, the people of r/detrans are living proof of it.

They're getting it right in the vast majority of cases though

You should read r/detrans, that doesn't seem to be the case.

The proportion of people that want to de-transition is in the vicinity of 1%

The validity of the Dutch study is questionable. That's what you're basing most of your assumptions on, and with faulty information, you're coming to faulty conclusions. Garbage in, garbage out. You should read r/detrans, you may find it eye opening. Plenty of tales of people complaining of being brainwashed by the internet, misled by professionals and trans advocates, and pushed and rushed through gender transition. And they find the so called reversible steps don't end up being so reversible.

[–]Vulptex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender identity theory would exclude HRT and any kind of biological intervention, because it posits that gender is purely a social construct. They're already calling people transphobic literally for transitioning.

[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

I'm not sure gender identity theory is ever the correct path. It's highly questionable.

It's an empirical science. You get the best psychological outcomes if you allow trans people to live as the gender of the brain.

Puberty blockers and HRT both cause irreversible changes.

It's certainly less than perfect. But it's not as irreversible as gender reassignment surgery, nor as puberty itself.

You should read r/detrans, that doesn't seem to be the case.

No, r/detrams only shows that detransitioners exist, which is not contentious.

They are about 1% of transitioners. Depending a bit on how hostile the society is: https://www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/

The validity of the Dutch study is questionable.

What are the main flaws in that study?

In any case it's not the only one. The UK had a crisis where one of their clinics had between 6 and 7 percent detranisitionin, and concluded that the clinic wasn't meeting all the needs of their patients. A Swedish study found 2% has some kind of regret. Not all of those would have detransitioned.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

gender of the brain

Where is evidence of this claim? What is "gender" of the brain? The brain of any body is the sex of that body. Any feelings in a man's brain are male feelings. To claim you can feel and know what the other sex feels is a stunning display of hubris and ignorance. To feel like you don't align with the sex stereotypes (gender) for your sex is normal. No one feels like they align with stupid social stereotypes. No one actually believes gender is what all members of that sex class are universally into. Who thinks all men are violent, emotional, aggressive, mechanically inclined, humorless, and all have the same likes of shitty beer, sportsball, and denigrating women. We are all different and none of us aligns to gender expectations. There is no such thing as "brain gender."

[–]MythOfPrivilege 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Haha, they can't let that one go. They keep looking and take the fact that they can't find it as proof that they need to look harder.

It's the same as with the "gay gene." They' can't accept that all of this is Nurture and not Nature, because if they accept that then they have to accept that all of this LGBTPQPWTF is preventable.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's the same as with the "gay gene." They' can't accept that all of this is Nurture and not Nature,

It's about half each.

Separated twin studies show that if you've got a gay identical twin you're about 50% likely to be gay.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh god.

You still think homosexuality can be cured?

FFS. Surely we're past that?

In other news, pulling out all the patient's teeth doesn't help PTSD.

[–]Musky[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You still think homosexuality can be cured?

I think we cured u/usehername of his bisexuality by accident. We weren't even trying to.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think you did.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Let's be real here, people are born with their sexuality, or at least have it cemented very early on. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a gene though; it could be a developmental error or have environmental or hormonal causes.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The brain of any body is the sex of that body.

You don't think there's any differences in the behaviour or psychology of men and women?

You might want to stop and think about that. Is it a sensible claim?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

All the differences are clearly the result of socialization or hormones. No one is born with them.

Of course you can say people are born with "masculine" and "feminine" brains, but that's circular logic. "Brains are gendered because they have masculine and feminine characteristics. Those characteristics are masculine or feminine because I say so. Brains have said characteristics, therefore they are masculine and feminine."

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

All the differences are clearly the result of socialization or hormones

Those contribute.

I don't think it's known how much genetics and how much hormones contribute to the differences in the brains of males and females.

Your claim that "No one is born with them" would be a 0% contribution by genetics, which is implausible.

Of course you can say people are born with "masculine" and "feminine" brains, but that's circular logic

No. Some of the differences are in the sizes of different structures, and can be measured objectively post-mortem.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

There is something wrong with a small number of people's brains. But it deals purely with biologically sexually dimorphic characteristics, not social stereotypes. I only know because I have it. Of course that means trying to diagnose this in children who haven't gone through puberty yet is very problematic.

I don't know how it works because there's no evidence of brain gender, yet whether someone has played Super Mario Bros. can be detected. Then again, studies have also failed to find differences between autistic and control brains.

There must be some small differences that equip a person to function as best they can as their sex. Or it could be that some people are just extremely unlucky and by chance end up with preferences that the opposite sex is biologically more suited for. So far I know of no real differences in personality that aren't obviously the result of socialization. Even for the studies which show that infants have a preference for girl and boy toys, the real explanation is science and people in general vastly underestimating the intelligence of the mute, as usual. Babies absolutely ARE aware of gender roles and which one they belong to, it's not hard to figure out especially when your family is showering you with boy or girl toys.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

So, this statement is likely to feel inflammatory but is honest - I agree there's as little evidence for autism as there is for gender.

I understand you feel/believe you have something wrong with your brain because you hate the sexed characteristics of your body. That's what you mean, right? That you hate the physical reminder that you are male or female? But being male or female only means we produce sperm or eggs. That's it. You don't have to be anything else - not submissive, not degraded in porn and other media representations, not your appearance being the thing of most value of you, not into pink, "overly emotional," etc., has nothing to do with being female.

What do you mean by "to function as best they can as their sex" or "preferences that the opposite sex is biologically more suited for." So, men aren't allowed to be nurses? Women aren't allowed to be fire fighters? Those are the social stereotypes - the definition of gender. If you agree that the differences in personality are clearly the result of the socialization, can you explain better what you mean by the two quotes in this paragraph? Thank you.

[–]Musky[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's an empirical science

My thing is science, yours is more akin to religion.

What are the main flaws in that study?

Bias and shoddy methodology.

In any case it's not the only one

Even if those old studies were valid, and that's doubtful, it doesn't account for the fad-like sociogenic spreading of transgenderism during the last two years.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Bias and shoddy methodology.

What is shoddy about the methodology?

What bias is present?

[–]Musky[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What is shoddy about the methodology?

It's a self reported survey where they didn't bother to follow up with everyone.

What bias is present?

It was funded by trans advocates.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's a self reported survey where they didn't bother to follow up with everyone.

No it wasn't a survey, and it wasn't self reported.

It was funded by trans advocates

Oh, not a bias in the statistics then.

Was there an external funding body? Who was it?

[–]Musky[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No it wasn't a survey, and it wasn't self reported.

... You didn't read it?

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes. It's from medical records, not surveys.

What did you read?

[–]brimshae 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (93 children)

The proportion of people that want to de-transition is in the vicinity of 1%

Now do the percentage of people that de-transition from being alive.

[–]MythOfPrivilege 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Their new pronouns are Was/Were.

[–]Musky[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hahahahahaaaa! That's so good. Well done, sir.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (90 children)

The reason gender affirmation treatment has become the standard way of treating gender dysphoria, is because is has vastly better outcomes wrt mental health including suicidal ideation.

Dealing with the mocking such as the sort of posts you see here a lot, does put a different kind of pressure on transgender people. So there are external influences that can affect depression and suicidal ideation after the fact.

One of the downsides of parts of the world with heavy metal pollution in the water or less than ideal genetic variation in the residents.

[–]jet199 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Nope the reason is political pressure. There's no evidence or stops suicide. There was never a risk of suicide for gender non conforming kids, the risk was middle aged men who transioned. The kids are just being used by the latter group.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's no evidence or stops suicide.

There's a stack of evidence. I posted a link to a meta analysis of over 50 papers in this thread.

[–]Vulptex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (77 children)

Gender affirmation is just denial. In order to have a real solution we need to have a real cure.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (76 children)

Gender affirmation is just denial.

It has the best outcomes.

In order to have a real solution we need to have a real cure.

Until we can grow a new body that matches the brain and connect it up, we'll have to make do with what we can do that has the best outcomes.

[–]jet199 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

What do you mean a body which matches the brain?

Trans people don't have different brains to anyone else if their sex and sexuality.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/

The only brain difference between trans and everyone else is they are disassociated from their bodies.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23230954-600-transgender-people-have-different-brain-activity-when-touched/

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not all psychology can be measured with magnetoencephalography. Only rough activity of large areas of the brain.

It's all in there though.

[–]Musky[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think they're talking about the fMRI data that is essentially useless garbage. Those scans detect brain activity in dead fish.

[–]Questionable 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (48 children)

It has the best outcomes.

???

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

Compared with not transitioning.

[–]Questionable 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

Yes. Did you see the link? Because I know what you are comparing it too. But the outcome is suicide. Is that your "best outcome" in your comparison?

???<------------- See that? That's a link. You click on it!

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (45 children)

Oh for fucks sake. Do you want to read your own fucking link, or do we need to go through which two groups it is comparing together?

[–]Questionable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

No. I just wish for you to comprehend. I'm not asking a lot I know. But it is what I wish for.

[–]Vulptex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

And currently the "best outcomes" are barely an improvement.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Did you do any form of transitioning at any point vulptex?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, because in my case it would make a mess and leave me worse off than I already am. Disguising myself and being in denial is not going to work for me. I'd have to actually go back and change history.

If you think this is about my identity you are deceived by liberal gender theorists, as are most people. To hell with what other people think I am. How's that going to help me any? That's like trying to treat depression with "just deal with it and act happy" (which actually is what therapists usually say). Maybe I'm just an underdeveloped human, but it seems reasonable that what I actually is experience is far more important than maintaining some phony social identity. But somehow 99.9% of other people strongly disagree, and I can't even begin to comprehend why. Probably because of matrix brainwashing.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, because in my case it would make a mess and leave me worse off than I already am.

Do you mind me asking what's unusual about your case?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nothing. I'm the norm, especially for my desired direction, which is why this is such a horrible disease. We simply can't be helped. HRT can help a little, but please. We all know it doesn't work well enough and only delays the inevitable.

Of course the data is extremely skewed by all the transtrenders, who now make up the vast majority. They don't even take hormones because it makes them "feel weird" and they don't want any of the changes. Unless they're AGP and want to develop certain body parts to play with, then they take just enough to get that and stop. The rest is just signing up for reddit and becoming a powermod.

My guess is most of these people are simply misled or find it easier to be seen as a certain gender due to sexism. Fine I guess, but can we stop pretending it's the same thing? If sexism were to disappear completely, the transition rate would probably drop to a mere fraction of what it is now.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

row a new body that matches the brain and connect it up

So, your claim is they have the "wrong" soul in their body? This is a religious claim.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Nope. Brain.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Wait, are you actually claiming they have a literal "wrong" brain in their body?! I must be misunderstanding you.

[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I'm saying the brain and body's gender are not aligned in patients who are transsexual or who have gender dysphoria.

Sometimes the physical gender will also be indeterminate or intermediate between male and female.

But the brain is another organ in which gender is exhibited, and sometimes that does match even when the physical gender appears clear. Hence "transsexual". You've heard the term?

[–]SerpensInferna 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Okay I'll bite.

What is gender?

What is male gender?

What is female gender?

Hit me with anything other than stereotypes and I'll give you a listen.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

There is the body's sex. What is the brain gender? Again, just personality and interests, right? That's sexist to say people who like to wear makeup, be nurturing or like crafts must be female. It's sexist to say that all boundary violators, rapists and people who like wrestling must be men.

Transsexual are the men who had autogynephila or were homosexual transsexuals living in extremely homophobic communities that were ostracizing to them so it was easier to live pretending to be female than be a clear target as a potentially homosexual male? I've heard of them. They never thought they were female, and having a fetish or trauma in no way makes them female or anything like women.

[–]MythOfPrivilege 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not traumatizing your kid, or allowing them to be traumatized, has the best outcomes. Participation in this modern gender hysteria is 100% preventable.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not traumatizing your kid, or allowing them to be traumatized, has the best outcomes.

Including treating their gender dysphoria, if they have it.

Participation in this modern gender hysteria is 100% preventable.

Ignoring gender dysphoria, especially insisting that it doesn't exist traumatizes your kid.

[–]SerpensInferna 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No one is born into the wrong body with a mismatched brain. Such bullshit.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People are born with mixed genders. Sometimes the mismatch is between the body and brain's gender.

[–]brimshae 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

because is has vastly better outcomes wrt mental health including suicidal ideation.

No it fucking doesn't. Cutting off healthy body parts has zero positive impact on someone's life other than a short term feel-good measure that will last as long as it takes for reality to set in.

Serious question: Should people who think they'd live a better life without their legs be allowed to have their legs removed? Why or why not.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

No it fucking doesn't. Cutting off healthy body parts has zero positive impact on someone's life other than a short term feel-good measure that will last as long as it takes for reality to set in.

There's been studies done, and you're mistaken about that.

[–]brimshae 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Did you mean "Bränström, R., & Pachankis, J. (2019). Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study. American Journal Of Psychiatry, 177(8), 727-734."?

That had to be retracted for correction due to bad conclusions and methodology.

Anyway, you never answered the legs question, please answer it.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not the entire body of research.

There was a meta analysis last year combining 53 studies in the field.

It depends on the severity of the body integrity disorder. In the case of people who are very distressed by their legs will try to damage them beyond repair outside a hospital setting. That is a worse outcome than a surgical amputation.

And my understanding is that the outcomes for such people is improved psychological health and happiness, which is more important that not having to put on your prostheses in the morning.

Until we have a cure for body integrity disorder, I think that it makes sense to allow people suffering severely to have a elective amputation. But again you need to be confident of your diagnosis. If it isn't going to relieve the distress, its going to be a mistake.

Note that there's no similarity between that and HRT. Not every transsexual decides to get bottom surgery, because, I assume, the impact on sexual function.

[–]SerpensInferna 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There is absolutely NO evidence whatsoever that affirmation treatment does any good for gender dysphoria. The sheer amount of detransitioners alone proves that.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Detransitioners are about 1%

[–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (33 children)

Stop gatekeeping you truscum bigot! The ONLY requirement for being trans is to say you're trans! If you seriously think someone needs gender dysphoria then you're full of internalized transphobia and are literally Hitler. DNI.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

The ONLY requirement for being trans is to say you're trans!

You need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before you will get HRT.

There are criteria for that.

From the DSM V:

The DSM-5-TR defines gender dysphoria in children as a marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, lasting at least 6 months, as manifested by at least six of the following (one of which must be the first criterion):

A strong desire to be of the other gender or an insistence that one is the other gender (or some alternative gender different from one’s assigned gender)
In boys (assigned gender), a strong preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong preference for wearing only typical masculine clothing and a strong resistance to the wearing of typical feminine clothing
A strong preference for cross-gender roles in make-believe play or fantasy play
A strong preference for the toys, games or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender
A strong preference for playmates of the other gender
In boys (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically masculine toys, games, and activities and a strong avoidance of rough-and-tumble play; or in girls (assigned gender), a strong rejection of typically feminine toys, games, and activities
A strong dislike of one’s sexual anatomy
A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one’s experienced gender
As with the diagnostic criteria for adolescents and adults, the condition must also be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

The DSM V also has transgender people without the dysphoria. But in that case, you don't treat with HRT or surgery. You just go: That's interesting. Have a good life.

[–]Vulptex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Only the last two criteria are actual gender dysphoria. The rest are literally just sexist stereotypes. Yes, this means it's nearly impossible to tell if someone is transsexual pre-puberty. But the media and big pharma can't have that, because it means they can't trans kids. And it also excludes transtrenders.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

That's the DSM 5, mate. As long as you've got 6, including the first one, that defines actual gender dysphoria.

But the media and big pharma can't have that, because it means they can't trans kids.

Pharma doesn't trans kids. Media didn't trans anyone.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I don't care if it's in the DSM 100, it's blatantly dishonest and distorted by liberal gender theory. You have to be an NPC to not recognize how the last two criteria are fundamentally different from the rest. Something like a girl not liking pink or dresses does not indicate transness, and to think it does is actually sexist. And kids are impressionable, so once adults or other kids plant that idea in their head they're going to believe it until they end up detransitioning. Then go on to blame trans people for fucking up their lives and propagating sexism. It also downplays the severity of gender dysphoria by equating it with normal struggles with conformity and peer pressure.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

The definition of gender dysphoria is what it is. You can care or not, but the DSM V is the standard. And if you have all the others, you don't need the last two.

[–]Questionable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Did you know? The meaning of words change all the time. In doing so retroactively changing older definitions creating paradoxes and falsehoods. This is how you subvert objective realities and observations, replacing them with lies meant to destroy nations and your family blood line.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Did you know? The meaning of words change all the time.

Technical terms are well defined.

[–]Questionable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You live in a false reality.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Okay I agree with everything you said, but I don't see what the big deal is about the family blood line. It comes up a lot so I'm curious.

[–]Questionable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Your heritage and your way of life depends on you continuing your family line. How your children help craft humanity is vital to our existence. That is all.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You need the last two and I'm not bowing down to the DSM 5 when it's wrong. Who gave them the right to call all the shots?

They want to erase transsexuals so that they can normalize transgenderism, and that's because it's politically expedient in the culture war era and brings in truckloads of cash to big pharma and Planned Parenthood. This isn't something to celebrate about. I hope it dwindles away and dies and never bothers anyone ever again.

Two of the criteria are people having real distress about their bodies. The rest are essentially what they do in Iran: "We're gonna make you trans because we're raging sexists and hate people who don't fit gender norms". WHAT THE FUCK?!!! No wonder there's TERFs. No wonder detransitioning is on the rise.

If this goes far enough EVERYONE will be considered "gender fluid". Then they will have successfully erased both super straights and transsexuals. And gotten everyone to believe such obvious bullshit purely through social engineering, and it is merely an experiment for communist subverters. They'll know they've won when everything the people believe is a lie. Seriously, people who lived under communism are warning that this radical leftist agenda IS communism, whether they admit it or not. And it is. They just want to destroy the individual so they can have all the power to themselves. A metaphorical matrix within a literal matrix, imagine that. Of course I already consider it such.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

You do not need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before you get HRT. The child of a friend walked right into Planned Parenthood with no such diagnosis and walked right out with hormones after one meeting.

It is transphobic and bigoted to claim you need gender dysphoria to get HRT. You are transmedicalist gatekeeping.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Yeah, they go through your medical history, and get a prescription on the first visit.

It would not have been walk-in-walk-out. They would have been in there one or two hours.

And they would not have been a child.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Why are you still arguing that minors don't have these procedures done?

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I see you've misunderstood my comment. Let me explain again:

Those planned parenthood facilities that prescribe HRT with "informed consent" rather than psychiatric evaluation cannot treat a minor, because a minor cannot give informed consent.

They do give hrt to 16 and 17 year olds, but "The child of a friend walked right into Planned Parenthood with no such diagnosis and walked right out with hormones after one meeting" could not have happened. They would have needed to walk in with their parent or guardian who would have have to have signed the informed consent.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

They give hormones to people much younger than 16 or 17, so it's sort of odd that you would present that in a "oh well look they're barely minors anyway" tone, unless you are genuinely uninformed.

But yes, for minors, the parents do need to sign a single form before the clinic sends them on their way.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They give hormones to people much younger than 16 or 17

Planned parenthood don't:

In order to receive gender affirming hormone therapy services you need to be over 18 (or 16-17 with parental consent) and capable of providing consent for services. There are special consents for these services. - https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-mar-monte/patient-resources/gender-affirming-care

[–]Questionable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Did you know? That you are u/ActuallyNot _ ____ _____?

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    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Nothing I said was a lie. Their child is 19. He walked in and walked out after one hour-long meeting. That's what I said. That doesn't refute your claim that you need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before you get cross-sex hormones, because that's what I was replying to, and you are still very wrong, because that is not true, and you're trying to deflect from that.

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Sure. I didn't suspect that you were lying.

    I was merely clarifying for the reader that although this was your friend's child, they would have had to have been an adult.

    I agree that planned parenthood will prescribe hrt from informed consent at since sites, rather than psychiatric evaluation. I didn't know that.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Sure. I didn't suspect that you were lying.

    Yes, you did. You questioned my integrity when you said:

    It would not have been walk-in-walk-out. They would have been in there one or two hours. And they would not have been a child.

    in response to my saying:

    The child of a friend walked right into Planned Parenthood with no such diagnosis and walked right out with hormones after one meeting.

    By taking exactly what I said and adding your own interpretation. You added the claim the child must have been underage. You claimed I said they walked in and walked out, when you can clearly see I wrote "after one meeting." You're being disingenuous, and you inferred I was misinterpreting what I claimed "for the reader." You are disingenuous and misread/intentionally misinterpret so that the "reader" would think me a liar. That's not acceptable.

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    If it means so much to you to be called a liar, do it yourself.

    [–]SerpensInferna 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    You need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before you will get HRT.

    By using the affirmation model, as you've been shoving down everyone's throats up there. What is the affirmation model? Someone says they are trans, and that means they are trans. Boom, done. What a rigorous process for a diagnosis.

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    By using the affirmation model, as you've been shoving down everyone's throats up there.

    Have i?

    What's the affirmation model?

    Someone says they are trans, and that means they are trans. Boom, done. What a rigorous process for a diagnosis.

    Trans doesn't need a diagnosis, because it doesn't need treatment. Gender dysphoria needs treatment, and the diagnostic criteria are above.

    [–]MythOfPrivilege 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    Big doubt on that one.

    but at least it keeps people alive.

    LOL, you're making it sound like something essential like chemotherapy.

    [–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    Chemotherapy also saves lives.

    [–]Musky[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    The success rate is what, 3%?

    [–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    Depends on the cancer, doesn't it?

    And obviously how advanced it is when diagnosed.

    [–]Musky[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    Sure it depends a little bit, but chemotherapy is distressingly ineffective. It only adds a tiny % success rate. It's no wonder most doctors refuse it for their own treatment. Huge money maker tho.

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Cancer treatment is improving all the time.

    Survival times over the past 50 years for many cancers have increased orders of magnitude.

    [–]Musky[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Cancer treatment is improving all the time.

    Do you have any evidence chemo has improved over a 3% success rate?

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    People don't treat with just chemo unless it's not going to kill you anyway.

    But inclusive with chemo, survival rates for not quite every kind of cancer are improving:

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/five-year-cancer-survival-in-usa?time=earliest..2013

    [–]Musky[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Chemo is surprisingly ineffective is the thing. Did you have anything that suggests I'm wrong?

    [–]SerpensInferna 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This is the problem with you types. I'm just exhausted reading your replies but you have enough pathetic and tragic energy to keep going back and forth with strangers on the internet all day. Knowing you're not going to change anyone's mind. If you got off the internet for a hot second, had some face to face social interaction, maybe your life would be far less sad. Have a great day.

    [–]SerpensInferna 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Puberty blockers are not reversible. They are a god damn horror show.

    [–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Compared to hrt they're reversible.

    Compared to the exorcist, they're more of a drug and less of a horror show.