all 31 comments

[–]jet199 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

You made the mistake of thinking the rapists are a side issue rather than the whol point of the political trans movement.

https://uncommongroundmedia.com/the-trojan-unicorn-queer-theory-and-paedophilia-part-i-dr-em/

Judith Butler says rape is gender performance, women choose to let themselves be raped to act out the role of being a woman. https://janeclarejones.com/2019/01/24/judith-butler-how-to-disappear-patriarchy-in-three-easy-steps/

Queer theory believers don't have any sympathy for rape victims, they think they are pathetic and beneath them. They think they are upholding the binary while a trans woman who rapes would clearly be queering labels so would be a good thing in their eyes.

They think they will bring about communist utopia this way (breaking down people boundaries) so to that end anything justifies the means.

This isn't just dumb tribalism, it's a well established ideology with its own internal logic.

By playing along with pronouns and thinking that trans people need extra rights to the rest of us (medical treatment through self diagnosis, another form of removing civilised boundaries) then you are helping people who want to enable rapists. It's all the same movement. This is why the other side will also come down on you hard.

Again not tribalism, it's your own ignorance.

[–]SychoShine509[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, and you have an ideology too with its own internal logic. The insistence that a person must make your position as one or the other such ideology, instead of seeking out their own, is the tribalism.

If Butler said that (I can't say since I haven't read her theses on it), then she's wrong. Gee, who cares. People have opinions and they can be wrong and nobody's a god who is right on everything. Nobody. Execute rapists, if that's what it takes. But if your stopping rape requires rejecting trans people who never have a rapist bone in their body that makes no sense at all.

And regardless, my point here is less to debate the opinion, than to point out the silliness of BANNING that which you disagree with.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Completely agree with you SychoShine, I have advocated for nuanced positions (I'm not a huge fan of wokism/cancel culture OR bigotry), but I just get attacked by zealots on both sides. It's really frustrating, appreciate your post, it feels good to know there are other people who feel this way

[–]SychoShine509[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! Yeah. The thing is, by and large i tend to agree with much of the spirit of most "left" and "woke" ideas - we do need to be aware of things like racism, we need to be aware of injustices, but at the same time, the way you deal with people you disagree with is not to go and ban their thoughts, it's to engage with them. To me, freedom of speech should be non-negotiable whether you are a leftist OR a rightist or anywhere in between or even outside (whatever that would mean - that'd be damn cool!). Free speech is the prerequisite for the use of the human mind. The lack of free speech makes one a slave. I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Forcing people to shut up doesn't produce genuine, lasting change, it just breeds resistance, and ultimately further dictatorship to suppress that resistance which then eventually, and likely after producing a bloody purge, is someday overthrown, and after that overthrow, things end up right back where they were, with all effort toward the original goal thus rendered unto waste. And I tend to think this attitude results from a form of lazy (I say this because I know I am susceptible to getting lazy in this regard and my memory for detail is not great to begin with) toward having to actually retain details, because making a nuanced argument very often requires pointing at specifics and details and if you don't retain a lot of such, it's easier to say "mmh mmh you're privileged!!!" instead of having to actually point out concrete examples of where someone's argument goes wrong. Of course, on the other hand, it doesn't help when so many don't want to listen to even that because their mind is made up, but that's why you don't spend much time on those people. You should keep going past them until you find the ones who do want to listen, and even when "just assessing" people, still you present them with a cogent case first, even if in a suitably abbreviated form. And it's not for the sake of the closed ones: it's especially for the sake of the ones you don't see and don't interact with who might be watching you and thinking about who they should trust more.

It's always the rational fence sitter that you have to think about. Never the flaming disagreeable you are so heated up about. Like with BLM. I'm very much in favor of the movement and its aims generally, but I KNEW that rioting against ordinary people was gonna turn a lot of heads the other way and, when it did (though thank goodness that we DID get some measure of justice for George Floyd!) I was NOT surprised at all. And YES, I understand MLK, "a riot as the language of the unheard" - that's the thing - I see both ends of it. It's true. It is. But at the same time you should also at least be considering who is really unhearing you and whether and how it might impact other people who otherwise might want to hear you. Even the ones targeted for the rioting - I'd bet dollars to donuts that specifically for rioter hitting a small community business the persons involved there are perhaps far more likely to be a potential ally than you might think, and then you just permanently made them a mortal enemy. It's almost never about the visible ones. It's always about the invisible ones.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I support, 100%, transgender people's rights to have access to medicine that they want to have,

I can't believe you support people doping themselves up with cross gender hormones in order to seek "euphoria." Ever notice how much they use that word? And the backwards surgeries that cut off boobs and cocks are mutilation plain and simple.

We don't let doctors do this to people for any other reason. If it wasn't couched in this gender bullshit it would be illegal.

They promise the kids this will fix their depression, anxiety, and their hate of their bodies that are going through uncomfortable changes during puberty. How the fuck does cutting your dick off and replacing it with a gaping wound that smells like feces an improvement over anything?

I'm not alone in the concern that as a person who does not have entirely stereotypical male interests, had I been raised today I would have been told I'm really a woman. Instead of being taught that stereotypical gender roles aren't all that important usually. That was common in the 90s, we regressed to a stricter interpretation of gender norms oddly enough.

Pronouns

Fuck that noise. Everyone having personal pronouns is silly. I can't even believe the idea is entertained.

Nuance

You tried to make concessions to the trannies but the trannies don't want your concessions, and they punish you for trying. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[–]SychoShine509[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can't believe you support people doping themselves up with cross gender hormones in order to seek "euphoria." Ever notice how much they use that word? And the backwards surgeries that cut off boobs and cocks are mutilation plain and simple.

People shouldn't be authoritarianly forced to what someone else feels is in their best interest. Any more than it should be the other way around. You can disagree with it all you want, where it stops is you getting to impose them to conform to the dictates of that disagreement.

I'm not alone in the concern that as a person who does not have entirely stereotypical male interests, had I been raised today I would have been told I'm really a woman. Instead of being taught that stereotypical gender roles aren't all that important usually. That was common in the 90s, we regressed to a stricter interpretation of gender norms oddly enough.

The problem is there are people who would assert transgender status WITHOUT such teaching, because it comes from something deeper. That's the whole problem with the ideologies - they aren't just certain sets of values but certain sets of "facts" and some of those facts are false. This is one on the anti-trans ideology. Just like a false "fact" on the pro-trans ideology is that you can just ignore the distinction of biological sex in favor of gender identity without consequence in every situation and circumstance.

You tried to make concessions to the trannies but the trannies don't want your concessions, and they punish you for trying. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Obviously, neither do you want concessions given the posture you are taking. Pot, kettle, black. Thanks for proving my point. NEITHER want it. It's only "stupid" games that seek to get beyond this kind of posturing that'll work so I'll win all the stupid prizes it takes.

[–]SychoShine509[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To explain. The original thread was about an ACLU decision regarding siding with making it acceptable to move transgender inmates into a women's prison, and was critical of the decision. My post, pictured above, is critical of it too while also advocating for transgender-favorable policy in other regards and areas of life and society. Mine gets banned, the original thread stays up!

Can you say "arbitrary enforcement"?

This kind of thing frustrates the hell out of people like me who want to genuinely find an option that does everybody justice, which can't come from listening to one side alone and following it dogmatically - either side!

[–]BravoVictor 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You weren't banned for your opinion. You were banned for that unreadable wall of text and tons of run on sentences.

But no, trannies do not have a "right" to make up their own facts, or dictate to biologists what is a man and a woman.

Gender is not an affectation you can slip on like a pair of underwear.

These people have a horrible mental illness and deserve to be helped if they're willing to be helped, or to be shunned and ostracized if they're unwilling, so they're mental illness doesn't harm others.

[–]SychoShine509[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

But no, trannies do not have a "right" to make up their own facts, or dictate to biologists what is a man and a woman.

Who is going to control them to prevent them from having such a "right" to say their "facts"? Isn't that censorship too? Censorship is censorship no matter who it serves.

Gender is not an affectation you can slip on like a pair of underwear.

Ideologically mandated straw man because that's not what it's about, it's about a process of psychological development similar to sexual orientation. Seriously, this sounds like the "chooses to be gay" nonsense/bullshit again.

These people have a horrible mental illness and deserve to be helped if they're willing to be helped, or to be shunned and ostracized if they're unwilling, so they're mental illness doesn't harm others.

Shunning and ostracizing the mentally ill is sick. I will try my darndest to subvert attempts to do so.

[–]BravoVictor 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Who is going to control them to prevent them from having such a "right" to say their "facts"? Isn't that censorship too? Censorship is censorship no matter who it serves.

Stopping existing pro-left censorship should be enough. Their beliefs are so insane and so in contradiction to science and basic common sense that any contact with the truth destroys it. That's why the left is so desperate to censor everyone attacking the alphabet people. It's the only way for their message to survive.

Seriously, this sounds like the "chooses to be gay" nonsense/bullshit again.

It's hardly bullshit. The left obviously believes sexual orientation is a choice. That's why they call it pride. You don't have "pride" in an innate quality. You don't have pride in have two feet or brown hair. You have pride in an accomplishment that you chose to do. That's why they need to brainwash kids into chosing to be sexually degenerate. Libs of TikTok have tons of videos of these scumbags saying, in their own words, exactly that, and how they're trying to corrupt and groom kids.

And science shows us our brains are malleable, especially at a young age. So you can corrupt kids when they're young, they'll be broken for the rest of their lives, which is why molested kids usually never grow up to have normal sexual lives or relationships.

Shunning and ostracizing the mentally ill is sick.

Then what's the solution? Allow pedophiles, groomers and degenerates to molest and defile kids and censor everyone trying to stop them?

I will try my darndest to subvert attempts to do so.

Ok groomer. We're done. There's no saving you. When the country's in flames, and you're all alone, remember you fought your darndest to make it happen.

[–]SychoShine509[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Saying something is disagreeable or false is not the same thing as wanting to deny people to have a right to say it. That's wanting control, not merely disagreement.

[–]twolanterns 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

offendo-matics then flag to mods with reading comprehension of 5th graders

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]SychoShine509[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    ??? ookay...... ???

    are you serious or is this some trolling chain pull? I sure hope the latter because rapey is bad no matter who does it! if you're rapey you get what you get and should, no special privileges in the clink! there's no crime more UNjustifiable than rape! It's the one crime that's truly without ever justification (even 95% justification i.e. that leaves still a little bit of culpability left but which in a truly just system would deserve only a minor rebuke), like not even can justify it 1% in any case that has actually occurred in real world (i.e. outside of some truly fantastically idealized trolley problem situation that can never happen, c.f. Captain Kirk and the Kobayashi Maru Test in that one Star Trek movie. He didn't believe in the no win test, and I agree with captain Kirk and you should be like Captain Kirk who lives in reality where nuance always exists and simple equation-like scenarios don't.).

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]SychoShine509[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      lol now I don't know (wo?)man haha

      [–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Okay groomer.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      You're a lot nicer about it than I am.

      [–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

      I still think the jews that thought this up need physical removal and the education system needs a review to include more physical activity and less of everything. People don't know what men are anymore because the system wants them removed.

      Even radio calisthenics would be a good start.

      [–]SychoShine509[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

      jews that thought this up need physical removal

      You sound genocidal. Genocide doesn't solve things. Every genocider, of course, thinks otherwise. They're wrong.

      and less of everything

      So keep people more ignorant?

      People don't know what men are anymore because the system wants them removed.

      And this sounds like MRA redpill nonsense.

      "Men" the world around still hold way, way more power than women do. Don't confuse media visibility with actual hard power. No, I don't want the script flipped. I want those who abuse power to be held accountable and punished for abusing power, and tyrants to go hike off a short cliff.

      [–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

      What's wrong with a bit of genocide here and there?

      [–]SychoShine509[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Seriously?

      What's wrong with murdering huge quantities of people? Traumatizing the survivors for the rest of their lives? Leaving millions of families aggrieved and bereaved? I mean, if there isn't anything more unambiguously textbook evil than "wanton mass destruction of human life and infliction of suffering and tragedy" I don't know what else the word "evil" can possibly mean. It makes no sense. Seriously. What else could it mean?

      You're a freaking monster. And given the target, I'll say it. A Nazi. Truly. In the truest sense, because you want exactly what they wanted - and what they actually did. And you should take that with gravity because I actually don't treat that word lightly and actually have pushed back on some for what seems like overuse or potentially ambiguous use, but seriously, I can't say what else would be appropriate to call someone who seriously advocates the genocide of the Jews, literally what Nazi Germany is most reviled for doing. If there's anyone who should be "shunned and ostracized away from society" it's certainly not trans people, it's freaking monsters like you who advocate the most violent and reprehensible things man can do to man.

      [–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Oy vey.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

      Yeah. Absolutely.

      What's actually wrong with killing humans for nonsense drawer-prejudices because your brain is too small to manage more drawers ?

      Supposedly even if most of this drawers don't exclusively contain bullshit, like it is typical for fascists.

      What the fuck could get or be wrong about that ?

      Maybe even train some algorithms to automatize this task. What could go wrong anyways ?

      [–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

      Drawers? Is this some new communist codeword I haven't heard of yet?

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

      You got a kitchen with a drawer containing your cutlery or your mom has at least. Thats the kind of drawer i'm talking about.

      [–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      Assume I am mentally deficient, in fact I'm sure you would love to do so.

      Please can you tell me your drawer-based philosophy?

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      Imagine this: You put different human beings in different drawers in different rows and columns of a closet. Just to save space in your memory and time in your brain-processing power. Because the process gets more efficient for the brain, so to say.

      Everyone of those drawers has labels on it like: Gay, black, white, TERF, nerd, geek, woman, lesbian, teacher, boss, possibly fuckable female friends, asshole male friends, non-asshole male friends, racist, liberal, democrat and so on.

      The bullshit you also put this drawers with these labels are your own prejudices you assume about these people that you put into this specific drawers. Some of these prejudices aren't even actually your own, because the were "printed" into by your upbringing or your social context. You just copied them from somewhere or someone, without sometimes even being able to question them. Maybe you were to young to even try to do this, when they were imprinted in your "core" so to say.

      Assumptions like : All black people are primates. All lesbians offend me, e.g. . But you can't really know, if those prejudices actually true because you don't actually know all these people that you put in their corresponding drawer. That is why these are prejudices.

      You judge something, before you actually took the time to actually get to know it.

      Your memory also somewhere has hidden sort of an asshole-drawer, where most of the humans people put all other humans beings into that don't seem to fit in any other or any combination of other drawers. So you judge them, just because they don't fit into your drawer system in your memory.

      The perverse thing about this, you tend start to believe your own system more and more the more the more you use it, rather than changing it, because it works "finely" enough, so to say and so you tend get lazy in this aspect of actually working on your own self.

      That is the problem with building new drawers, i meant. So you start to make wrong assumptions about the people because of the drawer you put them into.

      Does this makes at least some sense for you ?

      [–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      If you just stick to the truth you don't need to compartmentalize bigotry, you just simply accept that the wages of sin are death.

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      I understand this concept. But you actually only can see your version of the truth. There is no objective truth, so to say.

      That is why progressive geeks like us need other people to be able to smell each others bullshit.