discussing whether or not vaccines are safe or not is not allowed on reddit.

submitted by humancorpse from self.MeanwhileOnReddit

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

None of the current US covid "vaccines" prevent infection or transmission. Surely you've heard this by now? You can claim that transmission is reduced, sure...

Campaigns against the vaccine focus on this point about 'prevention', whereas the purpose of the vaccine is to help build antibodies, especially among those who get the virus (I've linked to the medical papers previously, and can offer another link), thereby reducing the spread and mutation of the virus because more people have antibodies now than they did before. Unvaccinated people who get COVID19 will respond in a number of ways, from mild symptoms to severe or critical condition, and rarely, death, as well as ongoing physical and fatigue problems thereafter. Disclaimer: I was not paid by George Soros to say this. I merely study science and its history.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

the purpose of the vaccine is to help build antibodies

yes, because it's a leaky piece of shit "vaccine" and CANNOT PREVENT INFECTION OR TRANSMISSION, unlike all of the prior vaxxes that we grew up with

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Not to bother you about this, but the main difference is not the "leaky" aspect, but the fact that the SARS CoV-2 mRNA vaccine has none of the virus in it; rather it latches onto infected cells in order to build antibodies. Thus both vaccines help build antibodies, thout the latter does so without giving a portion of the virus (and previous vaccines had a portion of the virus). In that manner, there is no risk of giving someone COVID19. I know I'm not going to convince anyone on this website about any of this, but that's the skinny on the latest "international conspiracy to sterlize 8 billion people with the latest mRNA tech."

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Yes I know how the mRNA "vaccine" works. You are the one implying that these "vaccines" prevent infection and transmission, which is dead wrong. You should go work with with Fauci if you want to lie to the public or use imprecise language.

You can be pro vax all you want, but I will continue to call out everyone's factual inaccuracies.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I see. Perhaps the problem here is that none of what I mention is my opinion, nor am I pro-vax (or anti-vax), or particularly political about any of this. I am merely stating what I read in the medical reseach, and 3 links (and explanation) are provided, here: https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/8giw/can_racism_be_based_on_science/ved3

I see no reason to mistrust the medical research in those links, and I've not seen any reliable evidence from "scientists" not engaged in rigorous experiments that I should mistrust the generally agreed upon medical science. It's helpful to be at Saidit, to see the anti-vax claims, but I've not seen any convincing scientific evidence from them. Perhaps I will see it soon. The blood clot problem was an important discovery, for example, though this too is investigated by medical scientists. Again - sorry to bother you - though perhaps this clarifies that my comments are meant to add information from the medical journals, rather than push a social or political agenda. I like debates, though I also appreciate that one subject many Saiditors are particularly recalcitrant to accept is the this medical research. Hence I hesitate to argue, but it helps me avoid a pile of work at the moment.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It's important that they aren't allowed to spread and mutate, which is why the vaccines are so important

is your statement here completely accurate, knowing that covid vaccines don't 100% prevent infection or transmission? could it be worded better? I am making one single point which you are avoiding.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I am avoiding your point? OK, so this, seems to be the point:

covid vaccines don't 100% prevent infection or transmission

Yes, this is true. But here's the rub:

In the history of virology, the first vaccines also didn't "100% prevent infection or transmission."

Because vaccines help the body respond to the vaccine and thereby make antibodies, there is an initial period when there are not many antibodies to help the patient, even after the first jab. The first jab of all vaccines - when they were first offered - did not "100% prevent infection or transmission." Currently, if one gets a second jab, though still has not produced sufficient antibodies to cope with the virus, one can seill get the virus (which is rare).

As vaccinated populations graduately develop sufficient antibodies, the number of potential infected people declines, as most people have enough antibodies to cope with an infection, thereby getting well quicker, and thereby are less likely after shorter periods of recovery to transmit the virus to another host. The polio virus differs somewhat from COVID, but it's eradication in most parts of the world has taken decades. The polio vaccine also did not initially 100% prevent infection or transmission, but it did eventually 100% prevent infection or transmission, because vaccinated populations have since then developed sufficient antibodies to fight the polio virus.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The covid vaccines seem to be a monumental failure, maybe im wrong about the specifics. either the vaxes don't work for shit against 'delta', or they are mere immunotherapy devices, not doing much for stopping the spread. which do you think it is?

where will covid be on this poster? https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/hc-sc/images/services/vaccination/poster-eng.JPG

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think research is ongoing about the Delta variant (as it would with a relatively new strain), which is another mutation/strain that developed rather well in India, as it was easy to latch onto hosts there, in those conditions, especially at political rallies. But like other strains, one can also build antibodies that will combat that strain, and if there are vaccines that aren't yet effective, there will be new vaccines for that delta variant. A list of all the strains is here: https://nextstrain.org/ncov/

Immunotherapy is another term used to redefine the vaccine as a therapy, instead of a method of building antibodies. These antibodies will - if there are enough - kill the virus, rather than offer therapy.

If fewer people are suffering from the virus, it will have fewer opportunities to spread to new hosts and mutate. Helping the body build antibodies is part of this process with the vaccine. One can track the spread in different countries, here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus where there are graphs that show a general trend downward in infections, depending on which graph you consult.

Regarding the Canadian poster, those diseases are rather old, and thus the percentage of 'success' is higher, now, decades later. The "cases then" section addresses annual cases in Canada many years ago. COVID19 annual cases in Canada would be half of 1,670,240 (in each or 2 years), and thus this number would be much higher on that chart. Of the 240 [EDIT: million] COVID cases globally, 217 [EDIT: million] have recovered. I could be wrong, but that's a 90% recovery rate, if we can trust those numbers. India, Brazil and China have underrepported their numbers. At this rate - within a year or two - the percentage of recoveries should be closer to 99%.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the government claims that infection is reduced by 90%, so that kinda kills my argument. i didn't know they had these bold claims.

During December 14, 2020–April 10, 2021, data from the HEROES-RECOVER Cohorts,* a network of prospective cohorts among frontline workers, showed that the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were approximately 90% effective in preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic infection with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in real-world conditions (1,2). (sample size 4200)

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm