discussing whether or not vaccines are safe or not is not allowed on reddit.

submitted by humancorpse from self.MeanwhileOnReddit

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[–]Zvezda 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (25 children)

what is a twelve step meeting?

Reddit is a dirty nyc metro, a lot of retards gather there everyday to piss and shit on each other. it is as if the moderators of reddit are zedong reincarnated as a dirty unhygenic transgender retard who love to ban people for dissenting from the normal opinion, except on an online forum.

[–]humancorpse[S] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

what is a twelve step meeting?

many different groups use the twelve steps as a model for recovery from some sort of dysfunction or addiction. Alcoholics Anonymous is one such group. There are many other groups that use the twelve steps. Cocaine anonymous. Narcotics anonymous. Marijuana anonymous. etc, etc.

Here is the weird part of these groups.. they all claim to not be religious and that they are not a religion.. but count all of the references to god in the twelve steps.. basically, it is all bullshit.

The twelve steps:

https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-121_en.pdf

[–]JasonCarswell 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

At all the resistance rallies there's a lot of religious folks too.

We can argue about imaginary sky gods again when tyranny chills out a bit.

Until then they're allies.

[–]Zvezda 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Sounds interesting. Does it work and why did you decide to go? And also, what do you think about the response to Covid-19 in developed countries?

[–]ActuallyNot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Does it work

Probably not.

Cochrane reviewed twelve step facilitation in 2006. There wasn't evidence yet that it worked then: No experimental studies unequivocally demonstrated the effectiveness of AA or TSF approaches for reducing alcohol dependence or problems.

In 2018 they found that "brief alcohol interventions" were effective: We found moderate-quality evidence that brief interventions can reduce alcohol consumption in hazardous and harmful drinkers compared to minimal or no intervention. Longer counselling duration probably has little additional effect.

[–]Zvezda 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

So why do you decide to go there if you know it barely works?

[–]ActuallyNot 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

It's got a foothold in America for historical reasons. Courts will often require AA attendance as part of conditions for drunk driving or antisocial behaviour.

They're heavily religious based, and many judges are religious, so they probably genuinely believe in it as an approach, despite the lack of evidence. It raises constitutional questions regarding separation of church and state, but the US is descending away from rationality and towards theocracy at the moment, at least at a supreme court level, so that's likely to get worse for a couple of generations.

[–]Zvezda 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the response :)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I would agree it's bad if 12 steps are required, as in a person has no choice, I feel you have to want to overcome addiction if one is to actually overcome it. I would caution trusting cochrane though, they exist to shill for main stream medicine. And I think common sense would say that talking to someone about problems would help. Though again I agree 12 steps shouldn't be the only thing nor should it be a requirement for people.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I would caution trusting cochrane though, they exist to shill for main stream medicine.

On the contrary. They're independent, and nearly the only body holding pharmaceutical products to account.

They have then running scared for some products. I recall in particular during the swine flu, governments were stockpiling Tamiflu, and Hoffmann-La Roche were making an absolute (and plausibly a literal) killing.

The refused to supply the data from the trials to cochrane, which is fucking incredible. And cochrane eventually determined that buying it was a dead waste of money.

They're rightly respected.

And I think common sense would say that talking to someone about problems would help.

The 12 steps isn't "talking to someone".

Step 2 is: Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Step 3 is: Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

It's complete religious bullshit. the reason that it doesn't work is because it's not derived by finding the things that work.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

nah cochrane is paid shills sorry

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

They regularly find that an intervention isn't supported or isn't as good as another.

So they're not shilling for pharma.

Who are they shilling for?

And what do you be this claim on?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

So why do you decide to go there if you know it barely works?

The 13th step is getting laid.

[–]Zvezda 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

:DD

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It does sound like bullshit, but they have the highest success rates outside of new school treatments like psychedelics. Other groups have had 75 or 100 years to beat AA, but they have not.

[–]humancorpse[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

AA is successful because AA says it is successful. AA claims to not be a religion because if it were a religion the treatment centers that use the AA big book as the core of it's "treatment" of a "disease" couldnt submit a bill to insurance companies for "religious services rendered".

Treatment centers can not submit bills to insurance claims for religious services, but it can submit bills to insurance for treatment of a disease.

many think that the success of AA can not be measured because it is anonymous and records are not kept, but i suggest that all you have to do is to attend a few of their meetings and take note of how many people are there in their first thirty days and how many are six months or less etc etc.

most people that attend AA leave soon after because they realize that it is a room full of religious loons.

also, a not so well known bit of trivia is that there are many people that attend AA that NEVER DRANK yet they believe they are really alcoholics.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

However, outpatients who received 12-step facilitation were more likely to remain completely abstinent in the year following treatment than outpatients who received the other treatments.

https://web.archive.org/web/20071029204522/http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/NewsReleases/match.htm

AA does have a huge first-mover advantage, I'll concede that*

[–]humancorpse[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure, if you spend 50k$ to get locked in a room for a month you are more look likely to stop drinking.

Says AA..

Who do you think runs those treatment hospitals?

Who do you think wrote that article?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

wouldn't someone maybe go to AA, stay for a while and follow their advice, stop being addicted to whatever substance they were addicted to, then stop going to it cuz they're "cured"? Like I know they say if someone is an addict once they're an addict for life even if they stopped drinking decades ago, but that is obviously BS. So if people go to AA then stop coming after like 6 months, that's a sign of success.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't know how they're measuring success rates of an anonymous meeting exactly.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You just agree to be in a study, and they call you every 6 months to see if you're having a fun life yet or not :/

[–]icebong 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Don't forget the love to circle jerk each other while raging that unvaxed people deserves to die cus everyone needs the Vax cus it could save even one life.

[–]Zvezda 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I will never forgot to wear my mask when around other people and to not go near people so I become incredibly socially awkward and afraid of showing my face! I cannot imagine how bad it is for young kids who know absolutely nothing about what is happening and are having to distance from their friends and wear a stupid piece of cloth to "protect themselves". I hope the next generation are not incredibly gay :)