/r/MGTOW banned

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[–]Amongstclouds 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

You literally just said women are valued because of their reproductive ability - because of how they can be used. You are saying women are valued for how their bodies can be used while decrying that men are valued for their usefullness. Do you not understand you did that?

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Both are technically valued for how they can be used. But people instinctively assume women are benefiting the tribe by existing, even if they won't or can't have babies, whereas they expect men to prove themselves first, and maintain it. It doesn't make any sense, it's instincts.

[–]Amongstclouds 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (13 children)

Also:

American women aged 35 to 44 who were voluntarily childless constituted 5% of all U.S. women in 1982, 8% in 1988, 9% in 1995 and 7% in 2002.

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_childlessness

So, frankly, with 92-95% of women willing to have children, it can be assumed that it is statistically likely that every woman has value as a child-bearer. 5-9% is a statistical outlier.

Whereas:

The national unemployment rate among male adults in the United States stood at 6.1 percent in June 2021.

Therefore, just as useful.

There, I've solved sexism. We're all equally useful within a statistical margin of error.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You solve it indeed! wonderful :D

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Yes, but that's not how instincts work. The only explanation I can see is that women are the sexually selective ones, so they set the standards for a worthy man but men are much less picky about women. Perhaps it's also because women have internal motivation to have sex and bear children. She can do that for herself and still benefit the tribe, so there's no reason to be suspicious. Men are made to serve the tribe through coercion and force, and in the case of most, indoctrination, and like in any totalitarian world you have to actively be rooting out the dissidents for it to stand.

[–]Amongstclouds 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

so they set the standards for a worthy man

The bar is soooooooo low and yet you're still complaining about it. My god. I hear women all the time stay with awful men just because the men don't abuse them. That's all it takes and you can't even manage that? Jesus. Get control of yourself.

Men are made to serve the tribe through coercion and force

You're so close to anti-capitalism...if you could just get there, you could stop dividing the world by men and women and actually fight the real opressors. Sooo close.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

No they are NOT. This is a myth. A downright myth.

Then why do men literally fight to the death to win and impress women? Why do women have such high standards while a lot of men fuck anything that moves? Look outside and tell me how many couples you see where the woman is taller than the man. Or where the woman provides better than he does. Men have to settle for less a lot more.

The bar is soooooooo low and yet you're still complaining about it.

Are you kidding me? Men usually have to do everything for women. Pay for everything, give you everything, fix all your problems, do whatever they want. He has to simp or he's not good enough.

You're so close to anti-capitalism...if you could just get there, you could stop dividing the world by men and women and actually fight the real opressors. Sooo close.

Nope, a willing employment to make a living is much better than a communist government dictating everything without your input. It's still bad that it's almost always men who have to enter this contract, but it still beats the former option by a long shot. Mens' actual requirements are conscription, worshiping women, agreeing with the tribe, following tribal customs, hating and fighting the tribe's enemies, and showing unconditional loyalty to the tribe through their actions and work efforts. Otherwise he will be ostracized, or in extreme cases, even imprisoned.

[–]Amongstclouds 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Ignore my first "it's a myth" I fucking misread it as less sexually active. Stupid speed-reading lessons when I was a kid.

Then why do men literally fight to the death to win and impress women

Um, they don't?

Why do women have such high standards while a lot of men fuck anything that moves?

Tell that to fat women.

Look outside and tell me how many couples you see where the woman is taller than the man.

Women on average or shorter. It's much more likely. Also, facts:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-common-is-it-for-a-man-to-be-shorter-than-his-partner/

Only half of women reported wanting a taller man. It's just, that, well, men are taller, yo. My mom was taller than my dad by only two inches. I bet if anyone asked, he would lie and say they were the same height, though.

Or where the woman provides better than he does

As the sole provider for my family with a stay-at-home husband, I don't even have to look outside, bitch. However, I have more facts for you. Back in 2018, half of households women were the primariy breadwinners: https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2018/12/17/more-than-half-of-women-are-primary-breadwinners.html

Now, thanks to sexism and the pandemic, I'm sure that number will be lower because men like you refuse to stay home to take care of kids. However, men aren't the breadwinners anymore.

~He has to simp or he's not good enough.~ Wahhhh I have to care about your emotions and your life! It's soooo unfair. Why can't I be self-absorbed and make you do everything for me???? WAHHHHHH

FIFY

Nope, a willing employment to make a living is much better than a communist government dictating

Pathetic dichotymous thinking. Lack of capitalsim != communism

It's still bad that it's almost always men who have to enter this contract

Not true. Proved above.

Otherwise he will be ostracized, or in extreme cases, even imprisoned.

This is true for everyone. Living is not free. You cannot chose to live without paying in our world. You can't just say "fuck it, I'm gonna go live in this forest" because they'll arrest you. That isn't a man/woman thing. That's everyone.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Um, they don't?

They did before advanced civilization. And still do, to a degree. Why do you think they love sports and bodybuilding so much?

Tell that to fat women.

Lots of men have a fetish for fat women. Very few women have one for fat men.

Women on average or shorter. It's much more likely.

Not so much more likely that it is the case for nearly every single couple. But it is. Contrary to incel rhetoric short men do date and marry, but they marry even shorter women. Men almost always have to settle for less.

As the sole provider for my family with a stay-at-home husband, I don't even have to look outside, bitch.

Good for you. But you're a very big exception.

Back in 2018, half of households women were the primariy breadwinners

I don't believe that for a second. I don't know anyone where the man isn't the breadwinner. Rarely I will see it more even split which is ideal, but usually it's the typical arrangement where the husband does the bulk of the work.

Now, thanks to sexism and the pandemic, I'm sure that number will be lower because men like you refuse to stay home to take care of kids

How can you accuse me of this when I've been complaining for the past several hours about men not being able to choose non-conventional paths like that? It's because most women refuse to work more than a part-time hobby job.

However, men aren't the breadwinners anymore

I'd love to see that day come. It's not here though, not for the vast majority of people. And I find it unlikely that it will arrive for a long time.

Wahhhh I have to care about your emotions and your life! It's soooo unfair. Why can't I be self-absorbed and make you do everything for me???? WAHHHHHH

I don't want that. I just don't think women should be allowed to do that to men either.

Lack of capitalsim != communism

How else are you supposed to stop people from making natural, mutual agreements and trades?

This is true for everyone. Living is not free. You cannot chose to live without paying in our world. That isn't a man/woman thing. That's everyone.

Women are given much more charity, government welfare, and help from family and especially husbands. And forgiven a lot more when they do fail. Men are a lot more on their own.

You can't just say "fuck it, I'm gonna go live in this forest" because they'll arrest you.

Which reveals that it's no different from North Korea. "You're our property, you're not allowed to leave!"

[–]Amongstclouds 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

Why do you think they love sports and bodybuilding so much?

Wait, so you do sports because you want women? When you could just listen to them and be nice to them instead? Call me lazy but fuck that noise.

Not so much more likely that it is the case for nearly every single couple.

I literally LINKED you a statistic. It was actually quite a lot of couples where men were shorter considering how often men are taller than women in society. If you're not gonna bother to read, I'm not doing any more research for you. I wasted my fucking time on you. That was my time.

I don't believe that for a second.

Again, I wasted time on you. Actual fucking numbers and "nah, I don't believe you."

I've been complaining for the past several hours about men not being able to choose non-conventional paths like that

I didn't interpret any of the comments between us as being that you would like to be a stay at home dad. I didn't read your whole post history because I have a life, despite what it may seem fighting on a tiny stupid website.

I don't know anyone where the man isn't the breadwinner.

Maybe you live in a shitty area and should move? Or maybe expand the set of people you interact with? I met my husband online. That might be a way to meet a woman who wants a stay at home husband.

I just don't think women should be allowed to do that to men either.

They really aren't, though. Women are expected to support men emotionally in ways men are not. We just want you to step it up to our level.

How else are you supposed to stop people from making natural, mutual agreements and trades?

Um, ew?

Women are given much more charity, government welfare, and help from family and especially husbands. And forgiven a lot more when they do fail. Men are a lot more on their own.

It's not true about charity and government welfare but it is true about family help unless you're me, I think. However, the thing about welfare is that the politicians claim "welfare queens" and shit like that to stop paying welfare and they use women because women are respected less than men. So use the villain to sell the lie that it is being abused so you can stop paying for it.

You're buying into their lies.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Wait, so you do sports because you want women? When you could just listen to them and be nice to them instead? Call me lazy but fuck that noise.

I don't but I'm barely human in the mind. But almost every other man does. It's not conscious, they are instinctively driven to competitive and physical activity. But the reason for that instinct is to impress women.

Again, I wasted time on you. Actual fucking numbers and "nah, I don't believe you."

They also said everyone was dying of coronavirus. But you're right, I'm wasting my time too.

Maybe you live in a shitty area and should move? Or maybe expand the set of people you interact with? I met my husband online. That might be a way to meet a woman who wants a stay at home husband.

I'm not looking to get married. I'm just sick of the double standards because even being single they greatly affect you. But the worst is what my own body and brain does to me, society is just another burden on top of that.

Women are expected to support men emotionally in ways men are not. We just want you to step it up to our level.

Uhh, women expect men to literally guess what women want and get mad when they guess wrong. I rarely ever see women helping men emotionally, because men are supposed to be stoic and show no weakness. Men often hold their darling tight though.

Um, ew?

What's so disgusting about people doing what they want?

It's not true about charity and government welfare but it is true about family help unless you're me, I think. However, the thing about welfare is that the politicians claim "welfare queens" and shit like that to stop paying welfare and they use women because women are respected less than men. So use the villain to sell the lie that it is being abused so you can stop paying for it.

You're an extraordinary exception. You're reading as accusing you of something and I'm not.

[–]Amongstclouds 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That's not true of ugly and fat women, though. They are seen as a strain on society just by existing.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Still less so than fat men.

[–]Amongstclouds 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not true. Fat women are paid less. There's some data around this. Fat men have to be reeaally obese for it to hit their paychecks. Women just have to be over a size L.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That is possible. However I would suspect it has to do with how males and females distribute fat at certain ages. Men who are middle-aged or older are typically fat even in good health, whereas the same does not happen for women (and even if it did, women age slower). So fat men become normalized while a fat woman usually indicates someone who's gluttonous or lazy. However if a man is found out as fat due to being a glutton or "lazy" he will be far more ostracized than the woman would be.

[–]Amongstclouds 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay, I cited sources elsewhere in this thread and y'all keep spouting lies and bullshit with no sources. I could easily disprove all of what you fucking said but I have to go cook my kid dinner now so i'm leaving this with a [citation needed] because jesus christ - you're sooo wrong, I wanna see where this bullshit came from. cite your source on this complete load of fake garbage, please. i have vegetables to chop now.