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[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (24 children)

How do you feel about this one?

because remember, black people have to be in everything and you can't say no to them because that's hateful

[–]ThePlague 35 insightful - 3 fun35 insightful - 2 fun36 insightful - 3 fun -  (23 children)

Is it so radical to think that some white people might sometimes just want to be around other white people? You see blacks, hispanics, etc express similar views. Hell, on some college campuses, black-only spaces are made official by the school.

[–][deleted]  (22 children)

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    [–]ThePlague 40 insightful - 3 fun40 insightful - 2 fun41 insightful - 3 fun -  (21 children)

    It's not a "default white space" if anyone of any race can go there. So, if there are "places for minorities to meet up and support each other", there should likewise be places for whites to do the same. Fair is fair, after all.

    [–][deleted]  (14 children)

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      [–]bobbobbybob 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      No one is stopping them from associating in white-only groups on their own time

      Except the law, which deems such groups as racist and exclusive and being a member will get you kicked out of most colleges.

      Posting a pro-trump tiktok is enough to threaten enrollment.

      Whites are a minority, one that has been heavily invaded by a global majority, than then insists on building exclusive majority spaces within the last remaining holdouts of white minority clades.

      Your viewpoint is so small you are unable to see reality.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        On the less extreme end of the spectrum, many frats get by by just adding a few token "diversity" people, some clubs are largely white

        But you said:

        No one is stopping them from associating in white-only groups on their own time

        It's not true and now you're moving the goalpost.

        [–]Earl_Harbinger 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

        No one is stopping them from associating in white-only groups on their own time

        They're likely to get expelled...and it certainly wouldn't be supported by the college.

        Considering that other groups have had less access to colleges

        They currently have more access.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Well, if they start to wear white hoods and chant they will not displace us.

          Moving the goalpost. Whites are not allowed to have white-only groups.

          Well, more if you mean before they didn't have any and now there is an effort to remedy that.

          Access to white people is not a human right.

          There's a difference between not supporting affirmative action because you think it's not meritocratic and flat out ignoring that some people have disadvantages socioeconomic or otherwise.

          It's called being privileged. A privilege mistakenly given by whites to non-whites that now are used to privilege and more begets more.

          Not saying that people have "privilege" which is a word I dislike

          I will say it. Non-whites are privileged.

          but some people have disadvantages that the government can step in to even out the playing field.

          Reframed: The government can discriminate against whites to favor non-whites in our own countries.

          [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          if you're black and don't go to college and get it all paid for, you must be choosing not to go.

          [–]Cratis 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

          There's lots wrong in what you said, but

          No one is stopping them from associating in white-only groups on their own time

          Is just ridiculous. Any student forming or joining such a group would be expelled--unless the group was secret, and if it were ever exposed the student would be expelled. There was a girl who got expelled last week merely for pointing out that black-on-black killing numbers dwarf by a hundreds or thousands of times police-on-black killings. And you saying "well, you could have an all or mostly white group so long as you don't call it" that just points out the double standard, because universities not only allow but encourage exclusive groups, programs, and scholarships for other races.

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

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            [–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

            By "groups" I mean friend groups, clubs, associations, hobby groups, and places where you can socialize

            You can't have clubs, associations, hobby groups for whites-only without risking punishment.

            You're saying that in a school that is 60-99% white, that you still need a white support group for being white?

            Yes of course.

            but needing university resources to support you for being white and nothing else?

            Yes of course.

            Changing the setting to Mexico, in a university where students are 60-99% Mexican, do you need to have a Mexican support group?

            Whites don't want to mass immigrate to Mexico. Your example is asymmetric.

            Cancel culture.

            Yes, cancel culture against any pro-white advocay. Anti-white advocay is encouraged and taught in universities.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              It was to illustrate that a majority does not need specific support groups when everywhere they turn, they see people just like them.

              The majority is not everyone.

              You are saying that in a school of 100 students and five POC people who may be separated into different classes and not have the chance to meet, they don't deserve a space to meet people like them?

              My initial reaction to your statement is that your opinion is racist if you think they "deserve" a space to meet people that randomly have the same skin color as them. However if the playground is racism and treating people based on skin colour, then no they do not deserve such a place. They have such a place in their home countries. It's a privilege that they're allowed into a white majority school.

              Not officially, but they exist.

              Secretly or under attack.

              begrudge POC having some space where before they had none and think that it is a zero sum game

              It is a zero sum game.

              you can design your own POC free life by checking demographics beforehand and going to a largely white school and living in one of those sundown communities.

              No, I'll stay in my own community and advocate for my interests. If they don't like it in white communities, then they can always return to where they came from. It's not reasonable to ask whites move out of their own communities and rebuild new ones just because you feel non-whites have a right to white communities. It's not a right, it's a privilege. A privilege which can be taken away if we so desire, which we do.

              Even without being that drastic, no one is stopping you from only having white friends.

              Most of my friends are not of the same ethnicity as me. I like meeting new people and cultures. This is not about friends but what we want our society and community to be like. We don't want crime, rape, terrorism, etc. that follow from multiethnic communities and countries. We want a united country with no ethnic tensions to help us preserve and keep our families safe and fed.

              The US has never been an ethnostate, and it's not going to ever be.

              The US has always been an ethnostate and it's going to continue to be that. It currently has a non-white population temporarily residing on our lands.
              "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system." - John Adams, Letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 28, 1813

              “The influx of foreigners must, therefore, tend to produce a heterogeneous compound; to change and corrupt the national spirit; to complicate and confound public opinion; to introduce foreign propensities. In the composition of society, the harmony of the ingredients is all-important, and whatever tends to a discordant intermixture must have an injurious tendency…The United States have already felt the evils of incorporating a large number of foreigners into their national mass; by promoting in different classes different predilections in favor of particular foreign nations, and antipathies against others, it has served very much to divide the community and to distract our councils. It has been often likely to compromise the interests of our own country in favor of another. The permanent effect of such a policy will be, that in times of great public danger there will be always a numerous body of men, of whom there may be just grounds of distrust; the suspicion alone will weaken the strength of the nation, but their force may be actually employed in assisting an invader.” -Alexander Hamilton, January 12, 1802

              "To be consistent with existing and probably unalterable prejudices in the United States the freed blacks ought to be permanently removed beyond the region occupied by or allotted to a white population" -James Madison to Robert J. Evans (1819)

              “The Number of purely white People in the World is proportionally very small …. I could wish their Numbers were increased…. But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my country for such kind of partiality is natural to mankind.”-Benjamin Franklin

              "the nest from which all America, North and South, is to be peopled, and the hemisphere was to be entirely European...nor can we contemplate with satisfaction either blot or mixture on that surface" -Thomas Jefferson

              " It will probably be asked, Why not retain and incorporate the blacks into the state, and thus save the expence of supplying, by importation of white settlers, the vacancies they will leave? Deep rooted prejudices entertained by the whites; ten thousand recollections, by the blacks, of the injuries they have sustained; new provocations; the real distinctions which nature has made; and many other circumstances, will divide us into parties, and produce convulsions which will probably never end but in the extermination of the one or the other race." -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, (1784)

              "Where was there ever a confederacy of republics united as these states are...or, in which the people were so drawn together by religion, blood, language, manners, and customs?" -John Dickinson

              “Against the insidious wiles of foreign influences, (I conjure you to believe fellow citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government” -George Washington, Farewell Address 1796

              "I say, that, at the time I drew that constitution, I perfectly knew that there did not then exist such a thing in the Union as a black or colored citizen, nor could I then have conceived it possible such a thing could have ever existed in it; nor, notwithstanding all that has been said on the subject, do I now believe one does exist in it."-Charles Pinckney, Admission of Missouri, House of Representatives (1821)

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790 "The law limited naturalization to "free white person[s] ... of good character", thus excluding Native Americans, indentured servants, slaves, free blacks and later Asians"

              1664 law: "Be it further enacted by the authority advice and consent aforesaid that whatsoever freeborn woman shall intermarry with any slave from and after the last day of this present Assembly shall serve the master of such slave during the life of her husband, and that the [children] of such freeborn women so married shall be slaves as their fathers were. And be it further enacted that all the [children] of English or other freeborn women that have already married Negroes shall serve the masters of their parents til they be thirty years of age and no longer"

              1691 law: "For prevention of that abominable mixture and spurious [children] which hereafter may increase in this dominion, as well as by negroes, mulattos, and Indians intermarrying with English, or other white women, as by their unlawful accompanying with one another," "And be it further enacted...that if any English woman being free shall have a bastard child by any negro or mulatto, she pay the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, within one month after such bastard child shall be born, to the Church wardens of the parish...and in default of such payment she shall be taken into the possession of the said Church wardens and disposed of for five years, and the said fine of fifteen pounds, or whatever the woman shall be disposed of for, shall be paid, one third part to their majesties...and one other third part to the use of the parish...and the other third part to the informer, and that such bastard child be bound out as a servant by the said Church wardens until he or she shall attain the age of thirty yeares, and in case such English woman that shall have such bastard child be a servant, she shall be sold by the said church wardens (after her time is expired that she ought by law serve her master), for five years, and the money she shall be sold for divided as if before appointed, and the child to serve as aforesaid".

              “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country, to one united people; a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established their general Liberty and Independence.” - John Jay, "Federalist No.2" (1787), The Federalist Papers

              It was always an ethnostate from the very beginning.

              I want to give you the benefit of a doubt but you seem like you've already bought into the neo-nazi ideology.

              Not an argument. Please look into saidits principle: the pyramid of debate. Please don't devolve this site into meaningless name callings. If you're not debating in good faith and just want to preach, then we ought to end the conversation.

              [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Anything worthwhile is difficult. That should be a given.

              [–]emptiedriver 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

              the difference is generally there's no such thing as "white" as a broad culture - there's german, italian, irish, british, polish, Russian, but the overall "white culture" is a mix to the degree that sometimes hispanic is and sometimes it isn't included... For "black", there is a group of people in the US who descend from slaves and therefore lost their ancestry and share a history of overcoming that.

              white people a) don't even share the common history of being slaveowners since some never were and b) don't need to share a history based on that. So then what is "being white" that's being celebrated?

              [–]ThePlague 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

              Common European ancestry. We descendants of Europe have a great deal to be proud of, including building the most advanced civilization the world has ever known. The fact that we can communicate as we are right now is tribute to that.

              [–]emptiedriver 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

              India, China, Japan, Egypt, all over asia and the middle east did as much "civilization building" as Europe. Just because someone has the same color skin as some successful countries they claim heritage to things? A darker skinned person may have a much more direct ancestral link to a much more advanced nation, by the sorts of metrics you are considering. Iceland, Poland, Slovenia or Wales may not necessarily have a story of great technology and colonization to tell when compared to Iran, Turkey, Egypt or India, for example.

              Being near other countries is a random connection when you speak different languages, have different foods, cultures, religious traditions, laws, needs, and resources. The world is big, history is long, and a lot of things happened in a lot of places beyond just whatever particular events you are considering important. There are periods of great expanse and then of nothing for centuries in a lot of regions, there are exchanges and then separations, successes and failures.

              In the end it's just weird to get stuck on looking similar to some of the people who did some of the notable things during particular periods. If you're looking for merit comparisons why aren't you focused on people with high standardized test scores or some other actual proof of personal capacity? Visually resembling people who may have achieved things in previous centuries is not impressive.

              [–]ThePlague 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

              India, China, Japan, Egypt, all over asia and the middle east did as much "civilization building" as Europe.

              Oh, really? How many men have any of those countries put on the moon? My point was "most advanced civilization" that the world has ever seen. Europe, and their descendants, are responsible for that. As well as harnessing steam power, virtually all major scientific breakthroughs of the last 500 year (Galileo, Newton, Gauss, Maxwell, Gibbs, Boltzman, Einstein, Fermi, Bohr, Feynman, Hawkings, etc), harnessing electricity, harnessing the atom, computers, the internet, etc.

              [–]emptiedriver 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Again, did you go to the moon? Should a Russian with light skin have more pride about that than a dark skinned American who works for NASA? It isn't about the melanin.

              [–]ThePlague 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              We're talking about pride in white culture, not personal pride. So whether I have or have not gone to the moon is irrelevant. What is relevant is the culture that enabled such a feat, which is European-descended.