Americans: who did you vote for?

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[–]Anniesworld 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

Apologies for the long response but arguments take background info.

Before you don't read my response, I linked articles that are not republican leaning. Nbc, fact check.com, the hill.com, are all not republican leaning. The judicial watch link is a conservative leaning website, but what they did was subpoena the secret service for a record. The secret service acknowledged that it existed at one point. That it was of an altercation between Joe and one of his detail at a Christmas party/ photo opp. It was "destroyed". Multiple agents have said why he got into a fight with Joe that night.

I think you have a point that republican's end goals for Row v Wade is to abolish all abortion. I do agree that that is a definite voting point for women. I do see that that would guide most women away from voting for trump but I don't think trump has a personal goal to abolish all abortion. A lot of what the moderate right( not social conservatives) has an issue with is elective late term abortion. It does make me fear that they will keep trying to knock back viability so that no one can have an abortion. I am more on the pro choice side but the democrats answer to this is to pack the supreme court. Do you know how damaging that is to a constitutional republic, it undermines the people's right to a fair judiciary. What's to stop republican's from doing it if they win an election. What happens then? The courts have 30 judges and every year it grows. Then there comes a time for a process for getting rid of judges, who gets to decide that?We elect a president, they appoint a judge. That's been a pretty stable system for two hundred or so years.

On the homophobic point, I think trump said once that he did not believe in gay marriage. I think he flip flops on the issue because of an Evangelical base, but I think his personal opinion is indifferent to supportive in private life of personal friends.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/305803-trump-diverts-from-gop-fine-with-supreme-courts-gay-marriage

Being against gay marriage was not a rare belief five years ago and I think it's still common today. You know who didn't support gay marriage and actually publicly opposed it, Joe Biden. He voted for the defense of marriage act and is also now supporting crazy trans stuff like children transitioning( which I think hurts gay people and effectively sterilizes young confused gay people).

Trump has talked about gay marriage before in the 90s and he apparently supported the idea of civil unions/ marriage and spoke about hiring gay people when it was still not very popular to talk about.This was in a gay magazine The Advocate. Apparently he is also leading a global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality around the world.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-administration-launches-global-effort-end-criminalization-homosexuality-n973081

I think it's lead by Richard Grinnell, a gay man who was the ambassador to Germany and director on national intelligence. This man was not a diversity hire, he was qualified and he was gay and Trump hired him.( Obama biden adminstration had no gay people working in high cabinet office positions) Is that homophobic? There are also several openly gay judges that he appointed to the federal courts ( Patric Bumatay is one example). Gorsuch a supreme court Trump appointee, led a opinion to include sexual orientation and identity in a work based discrimination case. I know we all think that the appointed judges will try and take all our rights away but their job is to interpret the law, not to make law. And I have not seen public support or plans to take a case to the supreme court to review the 2015 marriage decision.

On the sexism, do you really think Joe Biden is not a sexist or sexual assaulter. I know trump is a major creep but Joe is as well, it's just not as popular to talk about. There was a physical fight biden had with one of his secret service agents because he apparently grabbed his girlfriend's breasts while taking a picture at a Christmas party.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/judicial-watch-sues-dhs-gain-access-file-altercation-between-biden-and

Tara Reid accused him of assaulting her, over 20 years ago, there are records of her calling into a show to talk about getting assaulted by a senator around the time she claims to have been assaulted ahe was also working for his election campaign at the time. Blasey Ford had no such ability to connect any allegations to the time period of the claim that she was gang raped repeatedly at a party that she said she went to with her friend. Why I bought up ford is because we are supposed to believe all women. If that were true why didn't you hear about Tara Reed or that secret service agent. There is also many complaints from female security that biden would swim naked in the morning. Which I have to say is a little creepy even though it's their job to protect him and blend into the background, it's kinda gross to just walk around with your dick out.

On racism, give me one example of trump saying something racist about the black community. He denounced white supremacists like 30 or so times since Charlotte and did so when he made that statement about good people on both sides. The coverage on that one is amaze balls, how you can call that journalism is beyond me. In the same sentence he said that the Neo Nazis and white supremacists are condemnable people . Something people seem to forget is Joe implied blacks were not black if they didn't vote for him, accusing one man of being a crackhead, because he said something he disagreed with. Is that racist and offensive? I'd say, yeah.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/

On the Hispanic front, you have to understand context matters. He was making a speech about border security. He made a reference to the coyotes that ferry people across the border illegally. I remember because I was watching the news, when he made those statements. These are people who work for the cartel and have a reputation for raping women who are alone in the border crossing group. That is why he said Mexican rapists. It's true those men are rapists and I'd argue most of the cartel coyotes are murderers as well. Do we really want them to walk across the border to then turn a gun on the women/children in the group and say your family hasn't paid your debt. Do you really think that that is a good system for immigration along with the economic impact that the illegal immigration brings?

My most important point, lesbians are not a monolith. We are all individuals who are free to decide who we want to support based on things that have nothing to do with being a lesbian. It does not make us bad lesbians or in your words"disappointments" just because you have not heard the other side of the argument or just disagree with us.

Based on what I know both candidates are pigs, both disregard women's autonomy, one in a conservative way and one in a woke progressive way. Both have said offensive things about different races or in context of talking about race. Only one implied that they feel ownership on black american votes, and in a very nasty way proclaimed that if you don't think alike you are not of the same race. So, they are both fairly offensive men, now who should i vote for again?

Could you please give me some response cuz I took my time to write this out. I'm giving you my evidence as to why I don't have a massive disregard for the things you listed. Like I said genuinely want a conversation on why Joe Biden is the only choice for me.

[–]ShotsFired 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No one is a fan of Joe Biden. He's just the lesser of two evils. You seem to be an actual Trump fangirl, which is pretty strange ngl. Most people don't like either of them.

[–]Anniesworld 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

No not really I'm just someone who pays attention to politics a lot. This is not info that I got all at once by being indoctrinated by someone. I have been watching the news since I was 14 almost every night. On msnbc cnn and fox. I definitely lean right especially now with all the craziness with the left of left taking over for moderate democrats.I am not a fan of trump the person, I like some of the things he has done while in office, while some I could have done without. I mostly am not for how the more radical Democrats are threatening to pack the court and have open amnesty for all. That is going to radically change how our country works.

I am not a fan of his influence on people becoming more one-sided and unwilling to talk, the fact that I think row v wade might be declared unconstitutional, his inability to make any real plans on how to reform Obama care, if you look at one of my other comments I say I'm for something similar to medicare for all. In 2016 I was not rooting for trump i wanted to vote for Newt Gingrich. This election cycle I wanted to see Tulsi Gabbard or Amy klobuchar be either the democratic candidate or vp pick for Biden. Since being picked for vp puts you in a position to run in 2024 and have the support of the DNC.

I am a fan of having a say in politics and my say was not Biden, I want a more modeate democratic party. I did not call you names, I have have been civil. I only wrote what you said, that non Biden voters were "disappointing". I'm sorry if your own agresssive words have made you angry but for future reference when you are making an argument to get people on your side. You should talk with them, present an argument with some backup, and not call them names. It usually helps when trying to convince people of something.

[–]ShotsFired 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm not the one who said that non Biden voters were disappointing. I was just butting into the convo. I also don't see anyone being angry or aggressive here. But as for me, I wasn't trying to convince you or anyone of anything. I was just leaving my two cents as I went through the comments.

[–]Anniesworld 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

sorry i thought it was the same person i was responding to. i still think calling me a fan girl when i don't like lots of aspects about trump is not a fair approximation of who i am.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"Packing the court" is rich, considering Mitch McConnell deliberately withheld confirming over 100 judges during the Obama administration, including leaving a SCOTUS seat open for 7 months, claiming we shouldn't fill a supreme court seat during an election year, which didn't stop him filling RGB's seat a week before this election, even after voting was underway.

Democrats should be stuffing the courts like ducks destined to become foie gras. The GOP plays dirty and the democrats should play dirty right back, and your inane double standards makes you part of the problem.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They both play dirty, but changing the way our democracy works at a systemic level is not something I would vote for.

I think Mc Connoll is a lame turtle. I don't like the way the republicans operate and I didn't like it when it happened. I think the senate needed to vote to confirm or reject a nomine judge based on the confirmation hearing. I don't like the way things have become public accusation hearings and campaign ads for senators since the senate confirmation hearings have become widely televised. I think it should be closed to the public but journalists are there to report. It might help with the outrage politicking that has become popular in the hearings. This is a criticism of both the Dems and the republicans.

I think that not having a hearing was an immensely Hippocritical move by republican senators. I still think it is within a presidential preview to appoint a judge for both Obama and Trump. I don't agree with everything the republicans do or everything the democrats do. I'm not a straight party person.

I'm not trying to get people to vote republican. I think the republican's have lost many peoples votes, since they failed to do anything about the monopoly/ selective censorship issue of big tec ( something I think everyone here has experience in Reddit) and their religion based challenges against abortion. I'm defending my position that not all lesbians have to vote a certain way and that Biden is actually not a better choice based off of the topics that lavalanch17 listed.

Be nice next time and ask me what I think about a subject before you assume my position.

I don't think you are part of a problem. I think you are not making a contribution to solutions by assuming peoples views.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Look clearly you’re deep in the trump dive so I’m just going to let you believe what you want. But if you think someone who calls black people thugs and said the white supremacists in Charlottesville we’re good people is a good candidate look around at your fellow trump supporters who came to MY CITY DC this weekend with nazi flags Trump flags and white supremacy flags this weekend for a trump rally and then ask yourself who you’re so adamant to protect.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

On your assumption that Trump voters are in favor of white supremacy, i'd say of course there are unsavory people on both sides of the political spectrum. I don't think all democrats support violence against cops, even though at protests and rallies people scream burn the pigs. those people are obviously the extremes of the political and social groups. I think you can see the difference in how there are crazy groups of people on both sides of the isle, but most individuals are somewhere in the middle.

And if you are not willing to look at direct evidence to the contrary of your feelings on a candidate(both Joe Biden and Trump) then i guess we are at a moot point.

Anyhow have a nice day and it's been nice talking.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You don’t even see how your extreme party loyalty affects your ability to see how trump has been harmful to the US. He doesn’t believe in climate change and violence against minorities has gone up in the last four years. But whatever right?

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How am I loyal to a party when I'm considering voting for Tulsi Gabbard in 2024. She is a democratic congress woman from Hawaii

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can you provide with the statement by trump that we should be violent to minorities? I don't remember hearing that. What did he do that promotes violence against minorities?

As a minority myself I would like to know if I'm in danger from getting hurt by trump supporters so please send me a link.

Climate change is a balancing act of making progress for change and not stifling the economy. Bidens plan is not much better than what is in place now, in my opinion.

Some of the campaign promises I can remember, but I can't link it since the Buliden campaign site took them down.

Tearing up perfectly usable buildings, and making new green buildings. Is that really better for the environment? This is massive undertaking for very limited returns. I get making all new buildings as efficient as possible, but to destroy something that was built 3 years ago seems wasteful to me.

To get rid of air travel in ten years? Is that economically viable for a country as massive as america to use railway travel, is it really much better to cut through forests and build railways? Maybe in city centers or the densely populated areas of the east coastbut in the south west and middle America it really doesn't make much sense.

Electric cars in ten years[edit: now that I think about it I think it was 2035 or 2050]. What powers electric cars? Electrical plants. How do we get that energy? - coal - Fossil fuels - Biomass( buring trees, that's popular in germany, they actually buy our dead wood and ship it to Germany. Is that efficient?) - hydro electric power ( we are currently getting rid of dams to protect salmon runs, when they could install a system to allow salmon to get up the river) - solar( I wish it was more effective but solar is not as productive as everyone had hoped for). - Wind (also very intermittent and needs a coal plant for keeping the grid alive) - natural gas (fracking I'm not sure where Biden stands on this he said yes one night no on debate night and walked it back the next day)

California has had rolling blackouts, from their solar energy grid, it is hard to keep up with demand for energy so they switch on the coal buring plants to supplement( minute 28-30). Honestly it depresses me a little since, i really had hoped that solar would be a reliable renewable. Technology has not gotten there yet, and the silica sand cells have a limit to how efficient they are and can be.

Michael moore documentary ( I got some of my info from here about bio fuel and california intermittent solar)

https://youtu.be/Zk11vI-7czE

I have hopes that nuclear energy might come back into favorable view. Thorium reactors that have a molten salt reactor could be an alternative to uranium based reactors that can be problematic. Supposedly the reactivate waste is not as numerous and it's less reactive than a normal uranium realtor. I don't think the biden plans included his but I could be wrong. I tried to look at the site but they took down the information. -_-

I do want renewable energy to work, I think we should never give up on it, but it doesn't look like we have gotten there yet. To change over all our systems before we can truly rely on them seems a bit hasty.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

P.S. Oh and by the way, you don't let me believe anything, this is america we still have freedom of thought and speech. You have the freedom to talk to me and change my mind just as i do to you.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh and I forget to link this article for you again since you didn't see it in my long response above about Charlottesville. About that good people on both sides statement.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/