all 62 comments

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 16 fun11 insightful - 15 fun12 insightful - 16 fun -  (0 children)

Why did you even ask? You know we all voted for Kanye West. /s

[–]ShotTopic 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Biden, and solid blue down ballot.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

Trump all the way. Want socialism? Leave the US.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

But I would prefer just to institute socialism here.

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

What would you use as your model for socialism?

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm probably most currently aligned to democratic socialism (I don't pay much attention to the schisms) and want to focus on fixing unstable, inequitable systems in play today via progressive tax funded, New Deal-ish services and programs. I'd probably be degradingly labeled a socdem on Twitter because I'd rather approach the issues incrementally and through legislation.

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Is there a particular country's system that you would want to emulate?

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Something alongside the Nordic model of a mixed economy, but it depends on the specific issue we're talking about - I would love to have the beveridge model of healthcare instituted here, but I think the system in Canada and South Korea where it's a mix of a tax-funded safety net and employer provided / purchased private insurance would go down easier here. I'd like to have Finland's treatment of the internet as a basic human right (though I believe they still have private options for higher speeds) and Germany's commitment to free college (I think a lot of countries have free college, but Germany is the one I know off the top of my head). I don't think any country has widespread Universal Basic Income yet, but I believe Alaska has a popular profit sharing program for its residents that I'd like to see other states adopt.

It's crazy to me that most people are fine with government provided services that they grew up with and have been normalized, but when you suggest that such an approach is expanded to, say, healthcare, they start crying about socialism.

[–]Sunflowerdevyl 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

For the Nordic model to work in the US Democrats would have to sacrifice birthright citizenship and switch to an actual merit-based system with real consequences for violators, but they won't because then 'who will clean their houses and pick their fields?' They need their slaves to keep everyone else's cost of goods down and they can say they are the party of compassion.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with you on health care although it more than likely would put me out of work. I support the idea of changing the way the insurance market works for people under 65. I think we should leave medicare as is, it works well when people are paying attention to it. I think the under 65 it's a mess. I think the ACA act created a crazy situation where employers decided to let people go and cut back hours so that people would never get full time. So people who were poor before now work 2-3 jobs with no hopes of getting long term raises, promotions and benifets. The insurance market worked before ACA although I recognize it was no where near optimal or perfect, I don't like the idea of people depending on employers for healthcare. I know it's a complex problem but I think the approach is already mapped out. We should try and make a demi-medicare for under 65. Medicare gives companies money from a fund to manage and make efficient. Let companies compete against each other to give consumers a better choice and manage the plans. Let the consumers pay into a system separate from medicare to fund this.i think that paying into the system before using, like in Medicare, should be mandatory. But I think 40 quarters is too long, maybe 20 which would be five years of paying into it by working. That way people have a vested interest in paying into it and it doesn't become something that people can just turn to if they never worked. Obviously there are people who can't work and are disabled but they actually qualify for over 65 medicare. Anyone have more ideas on how to make this demi - medicare work.

[–]zephyranthes 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I'm a 4th generation Communist and I'd vote Trump if I could.

[–]TalerTest 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)


[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I voted for Biden after months of planning to vote for Howie Hawkins because I'm sick of the DNC and I think Biden is a creep. RBG's death and Trump's intention to use the now lopsided Supreme Court to declare himself victor scared me enough to switch my vote.

Plus Texas was touted as being a possible battleground this year, though we just went red like we always do and with a far larger margin than the green party took, so I wish I had just voted green party anyway.

[–]Lesbianese 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Decided not to vote, I truthfully don't like Trump or Biden. Considered Trump because of Biden wants more trans laws but didn't want the fact I voted for Trump to follow me around for the rest of my life. 🤷‍♀️

[–]Hydiee 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

you actually considered Trump just because of trans laws...?

[–]Lesbianese 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Not exclusively, no. But that was a big selling point that almost tipped the scale in his favor, him not being pro-male rapist in women's prisons is pretty important to me. Very few campaign promises can realistically be achieved but seeing how other countries have similar pro-trans laws and how much they've harmed women is terrifying. I know that Trump and his goons want to and have ruined abortion laws though, so I'm not saying Trump is a champion of women's rights, he's an awful misogynist just like Biden. That's part of why I couldn't vote for either of them. I assure you I did actually put some thought into this that wasn't just "trans bad", lol.

Perhaps an unpopular stance but whatever.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Trump has vocally stated he doesn't believe in gay marriage and recently appointed an anti-LGBT Justice. I'm not a fan of Biden or the DNC and I'm more of a centrist, but fortunately, Biden seems to be all talk and no bark and likely won't accomplish anything during his 4 years.

[–]Lesbianese 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Trump has vocally stated he doesn't believe in gay marriage

Yeah, I'd heard. My hope, if he were to he elected, is that it'd be for show. Still allowing civil partnerships that effectively have the same legal protections and rights, just removing the word marriage from the equation to appease religious conservatives.

I'm more of a centrist,

Same here. Used to be a leftist.

Biden seems to be all talk and no bark and likely won't accomplish anything during his 4 years.

I hope so. I don't want taxes to go back up again, our Government sucks at putting tax dollars to good use regardless of party and I don't want to give them any more.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

This thread is super disappointing. If people truly can't see why biden was the only choice especially as a lesbian I'm just. wow.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know, even though I love the green party why even submit a vote if it was just going to be thrown away anyways.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Rhetoric like this, especially with "as (identity group)", is a reason why people reject the Democrats.

[–]knownasness 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

now is not the time for this. there was one choice to make. thankfully, the country made the right one. we can get into the dems and their shitty politics AFTER we're out of the mess that trump put is in. right now, it's just not the damned time.

[–]TalerTest 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I don't understand. Are you saying that people reject the democrats because they want to be "not like other gays?"

(I know you're not, but that's how I interpreted your comment)

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I meant that identity groups are not a monolith and people may vote differently because of how they value other issues. Some people find their sense of entitlement to minority/women/gay votes off-putting.

Calling this thread "super disappointing" because people voted differently is incredibly off-putting.

[–]TalerTest 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wouldn't call it a sense of entitlement. The word assumption is probably more accurate, and it's not exactly wrong or entitled to assume that certain people will vote for democrats, there's also assumptions about who would have/should have voted for Trump. I also don't think Lavalanche17 is deliberately trying to shame or guilt people by stating that she feels disappointed by how others voted. It's just how she feels

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

thank you

[–]Anniesworld 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Can I ask why he was the only candidate lesbians should vote for? Genuinely want to know, why does he deserve our vote?

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

in this one election where the alternative is donald trump, not voting for biden shows a massive disregard for homophobia, sexism, bodily autonomy for women, sexual assault and mostly RACISM that donald trump has exhibited.

[–]Anniesworld 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

Apologies for the long response but arguments take background info.

Before you don't read my response, I linked articles that are not republican leaning. Nbc, fact, the, are all not republican leaning. The judicial watch link is a conservative leaning website, but what they did was subpoena the secret service for a record. The secret service acknowledged that it existed at one point. That it was of an altercation between Joe and one of his detail at a Christmas party/ photo opp. It was "destroyed". Multiple agents have said why he got into a fight with Joe that night.

I think you have a point that republican's end goals for Row v Wade is to abolish all abortion. I do agree that that is a definite voting point for women. I do see that that would guide most women away from voting for trump but I don't think trump has a personal goal to abolish all abortion. A lot of what the moderate right( not social conservatives) has an issue with is elective late term abortion. It does make me fear that they will keep trying to knock back viability so that no one can have an abortion. I am more on the pro choice side but the democrats answer to this is to pack the supreme court. Do you know how damaging that is to a constitutional republic, it undermines the people's right to a fair judiciary. What's to stop republican's from doing it if they win an election. What happens then? The courts have 30 judges and every year it grows. Then there comes a time for a process for getting rid of judges, who gets to decide that?We elect a president, they appoint a judge. That's been a pretty stable system for two hundred or so years.

On the homophobic point, I think trump said once that he did not believe in gay marriage. I think he flip flops on the issue because of an Evangelical base, but I think his personal opinion is indifferent to supportive in private life of personal friends.

Being against gay marriage was not a rare belief five years ago and I think it's still common today. You know who didn't support gay marriage and actually publicly opposed it, Joe Biden. He voted for the defense of marriage act and is also now supporting crazy trans stuff like children transitioning( which I think hurts gay people and effectively sterilizes young confused gay people).

Trump has talked about gay marriage before in the 90s and he apparently supported the idea of civil unions/ marriage and spoke about hiring gay people when it was still not very popular to talk about.This was in a gay magazine The Advocate. Apparently he is also leading a global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality around the world.

I think it's lead by Richard Grinnell, a gay man who was the ambassador to Germany and director on national intelligence. This man was not a diversity hire, he was qualified and he was gay and Trump hired him.( Obama biden adminstration had no gay people working in high cabinet office positions) Is that homophobic? There are also several openly gay judges that he appointed to the federal courts ( Patric Bumatay is one example). Gorsuch a supreme court Trump appointee, led a opinion to include sexual orientation and identity in a work based discrimination case. I know we all think that the appointed judges will try and take all our rights away but their job is to interpret the law, not to make law. And I have not seen public support or plans to take a case to the supreme court to review the 2015 marriage decision.

On the sexism, do you really think Joe Biden is not a sexist or sexual assaulter. I know trump is a major creep but Joe is as well, it's just not as popular to talk about. There was a physical fight biden had with one of his secret service agents because he apparently grabbed his girlfriend's breasts while taking a picture at a Christmas party.

Tara Reid accused him of assaulting her, over 20 years ago, there are records of her calling into a show to talk about getting assaulted by a senator around the time she claims to have been assaulted ahe was also working for his election campaign at the time. Blasey Ford had no such ability to connect any allegations to the time period of the claim that she was gang raped repeatedly at a party that she said she went to with her friend. Why I bought up ford is because we are supposed to believe all women. If that were true why didn't you hear about Tara Reed or that secret service agent. There is also many complaints from female security that biden would swim naked in the morning. Which I have to say is a little creepy even though it's their job to protect him and blend into the background, it's kinda gross to just walk around with your dick out.

On racism, give me one example of trump saying something racist about the black community. He denounced white supremacists like 30 or so times since Charlotte and did so when he made that statement about good people on both sides. The coverage on that one is amaze balls, how you can call that journalism is beyond me. In the same sentence he said that the Neo Nazis and white supremacists are condemnable people . Something people seem to forget is Joe implied blacks were not black if they didn't vote for him, accusing one man of being a crackhead, because he said something he disagreed with. Is that racist and offensive? I'd say, yeah.

On the Hispanic front, you have to understand context matters. He was making a speech about border security. He made a reference to the coyotes that ferry people across the border illegally. I remember because I was watching the news, when he made those statements. These are people who work for the cartel and have a reputation for raping women who are alone in the border crossing group. That is why he said Mexican rapists. It's true those men are rapists and I'd argue most of the cartel coyotes are murderers as well. Do we really want them to walk across the border to then turn a gun on the women/children in the group and say your family hasn't paid your debt. Do you really think that that is a good system for immigration along with the economic impact that the illegal immigration brings?

My most important point, lesbians are not a monolith. We are all individuals who are free to decide who we want to support based on things that have nothing to do with being a lesbian. It does not make us bad lesbians or in your words"disappointments" just because you have not heard the other side of the argument or just disagree with us.

Based on what I know both candidates are pigs, both disregard women's autonomy, one in a conservative way and one in a woke progressive way. Both have said offensive things about different races or in context of talking about race. Only one implied that they feel ownership on black american votes, and in a very nasty way proclaimed that if you don't think alike you are not of the same race. So, they are both fairly offensive men, now who should i vote for again?

Could you please give me some response cuz I took my time to write this out. I'm giving you my evidence as to why I don't have a massive disregard for the things you listed. Like I said genuinely want a conversation on why Joe Biden is the only choice for me.

[–]ShotsFired 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No one is a fan of Joe Biden. He's just the lesser of two evils. You seem to be an actual Trump fangirl, which is pretty strange ngl. Most people don't like either of them.

[–]Anniesworld 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

No not really I'm just someone who pays attention to politics a lot. This is not info that I got all at once by being indoctrinated by someone. I have been watching the news since I was 14 almost every night. On msnbc cnn and fox. I definitely lean right especially now with all the craziness with the left of left taking over for moderate democrats.I am not a fan of trump the person, I like some of the things he has done while in office, while some I could have done without. I mostly am not for how the more radical Democrats are threatening to pack the court and have open amnesty for all. That is going to radically change how our country works.

I am not a fan of his influence on people becoming more one-sided and unwilling to talk, the fact that I think row v wade might be declared unconstitutional, his inability to make any real plans on how to reform Obama care, if you look at one of my other comments I say I'm for something similar to medicare for all. In 2016 I was not rooting for trump i wanted to vote for Newt Gingrich. This election cycle I wanted to see Tulsi Gabbard or Amy klobuchar be either the democratic candidate or vp pick for Biden. Since being picked for vp puts you in a position to run in 2024 and have the support of the DNC.

I am a fan of having a say in politics and my say was not Biden, I want a more modeate democratic party. I did not call you names, I have have been civil. I only wrote what you said, that non Biden voters were "disappointing". I'm sorry if your own agresssive words have made you angry but for future reference when you are making an argument to get people on your side. You should talk with them, present an argument with some backup, and not call them names. It usually helps when trying to convince people of something.

[–]ShotsFired 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm not the one who said that non Biden voters were disappointing. I was just butting into the convo. I also don't see anyone being angry or aggressive here. But as for me, I wasn't trying to convince you or anyone of anything. I was just leaving my two cents as I went through the comments.

[–]Anniesworld 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

sorry i thought it was the same person i was responding to. i still think calling me a fan girl when i don't like lots of aspects about trump is not a fair approximation of who i am.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"Packing the court" is rich, considering Mitch McConnell deliberately withheld confirming over 100 judges during the Obama administration, including leaving a SCOTUS seat open for 7 months, claiming we shouldn't fill a supreme court seat during an election year, which didn't stop him filling RGB's seat a week before this election, even after voting was underway.

Democrats should be stuffing the courts like ducks destined to become foie gras. The GOP plays dirty and the democrats should play dirty right back, and your inane double standards makes you part of the problem.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They both play dirty, but changing the way our democracy works at a systemic level is not something I would vote for.

I think Mc Connoll is a lame turtle. I don't like the way the republicans operate and I didn't like it when it happened. I think the senate needed to vote to confirm or reject a nomine judge based on the confirmation hearing. I don't like the way things have become public accusation hearings and campaign ads for senators since the senate confirmation hearings have become widely televised. I think it should be closed to the public but journalists are there to report. It might help with the outrage politicking that has become popular in the hearings. This is a criticism of both the Dems and the republicans.

I think that not having a hearing was an immensely Hippocritical move by republican senators. I still think it is within a presidential preview to appoint a judge for both Obama and Trump. I don't agree with everything the republicans do or everything the democrats do. I'm not a straight party person.

I'm not trying to get people to vote republican. I think the republican's have lost many peoples votes, since they failed to do anything about the monopoly/ selective censorship issue of big tec ( something I think everyone here has experience in Reddit) and their religion based challenges against abortion. I'm defending my position that not all lesbians have to vote a certain way and that Biden is actually not a better choice based off of the topics that lavalanch17 listed.

Be nice next time and ask me what I think about a subject before you assume my position.

I don't think you are part of a problem. I think you are not making a contribution to solutions by assuming peoples views.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Look clearly you’re deep in the trump dive so I’m just going to let you believe what you want. But if you think someone who calls black people thugs and said the white supremacists in Charlottesville we’re good people is a good candidate look around at your fellow trump supporters who came to MY CITY DC this weekend with nazi flags Trump flags and white supremacy flags this weekend for a trump rally and then ask yourself who you’re so adamant to protect.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

On your assumption that Trump voters are in favor of white supremacy, i'd say of course there are unsavory people on both sides of the political spectrum. I don't think all democrats support violence against cops, even though at protests and rallies people scream burn the pigs. those people are obviously the extremes of the political and social groups. I think you can see the difference in how there are crazy groups of people on both sides of the isle, but most individuals are somewhere in the middle.

And if you are not willing to look at direct evidence to the contrary of your feelings on a candidate(both Joe Biden and Trump) then i guess we are at a moot point.

Anyhow have a nice day and it's been nice talking.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You don’t even see how your extreme party loyalty affects your ability to see how trump has been harmful to the US. He doesn’t believe in climate change and violence against minorities has gone up in the last four years. But whatever right?

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How am I loyal to a party when I'm considering voting for Tulsi Gabbard in 2024. She is a democratic congress woman from Hawaii

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can you provide with the statement by trump that we should be violent to minorities? I don't remember hearing that. What did he do that promotes violence against minorities?

As a minority myself I would like to know if I'm in danger from getting hurt by trump supporters so please send me a link.

Climate change is a balancing act of making progress for change and not stifling the economy. Bidens plan is not much better than what is in place now, in my opinion.

Some of the campaign promises I can remember, but I can't link it since the Buliden campaign site took them down.

Tearing up perfectly usable buildings, and making new green buildings. Is that really better for the environment? This is massive undertaking for very limited returns. I get making all new buildings as efficient as possible, but to destroy something that was built 3 years ago seems wasteful to me.

To get rid of air travel in ten years? Is that economically viable for a country as massive as america to use railway travel, is it really much better to cut through forests and build railways? Maybe in city centers or the densely populated areas of the east coastbut in the south west and middle America it really doesn't make much sense.

Electric cars in ten years[edit: now that I think about it I think it was 2035 or 2050]. What powers electric cars? Electrical plants. How do we get that energy? - coal - Fossil fuels - Biomass( buring trees, that's popular in germany, they actually buy our dead wood and ship it to Germany. Is that efficient?) - hydro electric power ( we are currently getting rid of dams to protect salmon runs, when they could install a system to allow salmon to get up the river) - solar( I wish it was more effective but solar is not as productive as everyone had hoped for). - Wind (also very intermittent and needs a coal plant for keeping the grid alive) - natural gas (fracking I'm not sure where Biden stands on this he said yes one night no on debate night and walked it back the next day)

California has had rolling blackouts, from their solar energy grid, it is hard to keep up with demand for energy so they switch on the coal buring plants to supplement( minute 28-30). Honestly it depresses me a little since, i really had hoped that solar would be a reliable renewable. Technology has not gotten there yet, and the silica sand cells have a limit to how efficient they are and can be.

Michael moore documentary ( I got some of my info from here about bio fuel and california intermittent solar)

I have hopes that nuclear energy might come back into favorable view. Thorium reactors that have a molten salt reactor could be an alternative to uranium based reactors that can be problematic. Supposedly the reactivate waste is not as numerous and it's less reactive than a normal uranium realtor. I don't think the biden plans included his but I could be wrong. I tried to look at the site but they took down the information. -_-

I do want renewable energy to work, I think we should never give up on it, but it doesn't look like we have gotten there yet. To change over all our systems before we can truly rely on them seems a bit hasty.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

P.S. Oh and by the way, you don't let me believe anything, this is america we still have freedom of thought and speech. You have the freedom to talk to me and change my mind just as i do to you.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh and I forget to link this article for you again since you didn't see it in my long response above about Charlottesville. About that good people on both sides statement.

[–]biggreensunglasses 9 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not American just chipping in to say how batshit it is watching this for days and days on end 😂

COUNT FASTER, love from rest of world

[–]knownasness 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

voted for the very first time because even though my state is blue.. i figured the more votes, the less chance there is that he fights the results. i just knew it'd be a landslide after the year we've had and yet!!!! america does nothing but disappoint me. this thread is mostly disappointing. we do not deserve good things, as a species.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

This is weirdly the result that I wanted - I was mad about the DNC doing Bernie dirty on Super Tuesday and wanted Biden to win, but only after a razor's edge nailbiter that made democrats question their entire approach.

Be careful what you wish for, I guess. These past few days of slapping refresh every few minutes on news sites have absolutely sucked and I'm really mortified so many people still voted for Trump after the past 4 years and the last 8 months especially.

[–]knownasness 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

that's the thing though. i don't think they will change anything. they do not learn from their mistakes, if they had, bernie would've been the nominee this time around. they refuse to play dirty like the republicans even though it's clear that's the only damn way. they're going to forever to take the "bigger person" approach as though it will help them gain voters and that will NEVER BE THE CASE. the only reason biden is going to win is because of the handful of people who are starving and about to become homeless due to trump. if it weren't for the pandemic, he'd easily be handed a second term. this country is shit.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, you're right, and I don't know what to do about it aside from voting in AOC-like grassroot politicians and then voting them out (or placing term limits on them would be preferable but it's not like they're going to place term limits on themselves) before they turn into Pelosis.

I would genuinely like to know why the 70 million who voted for Trump this year did so. Most of the people I know who voted for him in 2016 hate him now or base their votes on who annoys them on Twitter, and I don't know how to reach people like that. Some are just legit bigoted pieces of shit, but I hope all 70 million of them aren't.

[–]soundsituation 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Howie Hawkins (Green Party)

Trump's optics are repugnant but in terms of actual effect and long-term consequence I'm not at all convinced that he's worse than Biden. I voted for Bernie in the primaries and have voted blue in every single Presidential election I was eligible for until this one.

After rigging the primaries in broad daylight in both 2016 AND 2020 and kicking the Green Party off the ballot in certain states--not to mention abandoning the working/middle class despite strong bipartisan support for policies that would help them--the "Democratic" Party deserves to go die in a hole imo.

[–]lmaonope333 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Green party, I couldn't bring myself to vote for Biden

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I could understand why someone would vote Trump in 2016. Hillary Clinton was just sleazy and gross establishment puppet, and Trump presented himself as a brick through the window of the establishment, someone who wouldn't give a shit about pleasing the political elite and wouldn't be held back by tradition. He promised change in a way weirdly similar to Obama's. People who were sick and tired of the regular back-and-forth American politics could see past his bumbling and have faith that he would shake things up.

In 2020, I believe you'd have to be a complete moron to vote for Trump. He wasn't so much an establishment disrupter, as he was an idiotic manbaby who ruled through tantrums, wasted every opportunity for good with his pettiness, and blew away all of America's international goodwill and any remaining moral standing it had. I can't fathom how any American could look at the last four years and say, "That was great, I'll take another!"

But apparently half of Americans do just that.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Jo Jorgensen. I don't like Trump, I don't like the Democrats, and I live in such a solidly blue state it hardly matters anyway.

[–]SailorMoon2020 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I voted Biden/Harris but voted for mostly Republicans, a few green party for my local district and state. States hold more power for the people than national government anyway. National government has no bearing on states issues whether social or economic.

Since my values are a bit traditional and capitalistic, I will lean for the party as that. I'd probably vote Republican on a national level if they were less cynical about racial and gay/lez issues.

Ironically though, Democratic cities are quite capitalistic and more racially segregated than non-democratic cities. Given my financial situation, I'd probably still succeed in a democratic city which tends to cater more for the upper class anyway, and throw all the riff raff to the side.

[–]chupacabrawitch 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Jo Jorgensen

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I live somewhere where my vote matters so I voted for Biden, but it was really a vote against Trump. I wanted Biden to win, but narrowly to give Democrats leadership a wake-up call, and I do think this qualifies. If Biden and the Democrats hadn't royally fucked up so much with identity politics, it would have been a landslide. The fact that it was so close is very telling.

I am already campaigning against the Equality Act. I hate money in politics, I hate the corruption, and I hate wokeness, and I think they're all tied together right now. So many anti-racist, socialist, Antifa, ACAB types celebrating woke capitalism. People like Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, and AOC can see the corruption and influence of Big Pharma, but are short-sighted and fail to see it when it comes to the transing of kids. What's up with that? That on the surface level, blowing the whistle here would not be seen as "progressive?" It has made me lose so much respect for them.

I voted for a few Republicans down ballot (for the first time ever). Where I am the Republican candidates aren't especially religious or homophobic. I wouldn't vote for any who were. But I wouldn't vote for any Democrats who were actively trying to get gender identity added to law.

[–]Anniesworld 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I voted for trump. I think that the job of president is not about being likeable or nice, it's about the job you do for the people. Trump has delivered on many of his campaign promises. I get that he looks and sounds like an ass half the time, but you cannot deny he has done good for this country in terms of the economy( barring covid, but any president would not have been able to avoid the economic impact). Our international standing is stronger as we became energy independent. I think a vote for biden is a vote for stepping backwards in international issues and on the economy. Not only that, he is personally involved in a massive corruption scandal. I know a lot of you will tell me that is fake but I'd be glad to talk about it with you and tell you some things you probably have not heard before about it( I can also link info). I know a lot of responses to the biden corruption is to say trump does it too but, the catch is thst he was impeached and investigated by the democrats. They found no evidence of wrongdoing and they wanted to gut him like a fish. I also personally think that the democrats behavior in the last few months has really soured me to wanting to vote for them. I personally would have liked to have someone more polished and less abrasive to vote for, but I'd rather vote for someone who gets things done. Did anyone want to see Tulsi Gabbard be considered for vp of Bidens ticket? I personally think she has the chops for being a strong candidate for 2024 if the DNC doesn't manipulate the primaries again.

[–]Jillyjanejan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

When you say that Trump has helped the economy what are you specifically referring to? The credit for that success should be given to Obama.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

How do you credit that to obama? What part of his policies actually provided the economic growth we saw before covid? I would argue that trump's tax plan made the american economy more attractive for investment. Question for you, would you rather have 3% of 5 million dollars or none? When we tax companies in high rates they decide to move out of the american economy and go to Singapore and panama to bank and evade taxes. It's generally not a great idea to raise taxes on corporations because they will just leave and then the american people are cheeted out of the money that should be taxed. Another thing is that if they decide to stay, who do you think will really pay those taxes, the consumer will have to pay 20$ for a gallon of milk. That does not seem like a great economy to me. If your response is we force them, my response is to watch as all the skilled educated people find ways to move to England and singapore. My family is cuban this is exactly what happened. People who are cuban doctors in recent years are still trying to find ways out of cuba. The tax cuts helped small business grow when they had been struggling before. I'd argue that global stability in the world is better for economic growth than instability. While Obama/Bush were in office we had multiple conflicts, the most recent being north korea. Things were getting heated and Obama warned trump during transition that we might be on the road to war with them. remember the hawaii scare in the first month Trump was in office. Trumps handling of that situation helped calm things down, as much as that sounds strange but strength and negoting power works more than being presidential. Obama/ Biden inherited a bad economy but the recovery was slow and stunted by us looking to negotiate with middle eastern countries that kept us in conflicts(Iran deal). Another thing to note is that the trump adminstration made peace deals between israel and other arabic countries. This is very important because this affects the price of oil globally( which europe depends on). When there is conflict between israel and others oil jumps in price and people feel it everywhere. These arabic countries realized that iran is the bigger threat to them and they no longer had the US by the oil balls so they made a deal for better fighting capability against iran. Obama/Biden made a deal to let iranians keep their nuclear program and we also payed them billions of dollars. Which do you think is more economical? Sorry about the large amount of text but there is a lot of context that has to be given in order to debate effectively. I do want to hear your opinion, maybe I'm missing something.

[–]Jillyjanejan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Aren't you're speaking of the TCJA in terms of it's projected pay-offs rather than the reality? It failed to deliver on the estimations and, after an initial spike, growth started heading south even before the pandemic

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm talking about both projected payoffs and reality. I already said why I think tax cuts help the economy in the comment above. What Obama Biden or Bush era policies created this economic growth in the last four years? If you know please enlighten me, and change the way I see it.

[–]Jillyjanejan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry, instead of saying Obama deserves the credit for economic growth what I should have said is Trump doesn't deserve that much credit. That would have been clearer. He just inherited a post-recession economy that was already picking up momentum. It was actually not stunted like you claimed. I'm not trying to change the way you see anything- not everyone who leaves a contrasting opinion wants to enter into a tedious debate. I'm not the debating type so let's just agree to disagree. And I think you should re-examine the after effects of the TCJA.

[–]Anniesworld 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do think that it is definitely easier riding a wave of slow economic growth and building on that,what trump did, than be president after an awful recession like Obama had. I'm not saying Obama was the absolute worst, I'm saying that the economy is in a stronger position under trump, and the Obama/Biden policies did not do as well as the trump policies.

I will look up more info on the TCJA although I did look it up and saw that the cuts seem to be beneficial more for the middle class and corporations. I saw that they cut some of the ACA programs premium tax credits(insurance subsidy) to be able to make the tax cuts. Which I have idea on how that impacts everyone's tax returns negatively and positively, but I get that you are kinda done with the conversation.

I don't think it's tedious to talk about issues that are important, since we gain knowledge from discussion. I definitely will be looking more in-depth at the trump tax cuts because you brought up a point that is valid,( how impactful have they been) although I still think that principal of tax cuts makes sense for economic growth (long and short term). I learned something from our talk and I enjoyed talking with you.

[–]HelloMomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Biden, because

  1. COVID
  2. The kids on the boarder

I don't much like him, but voting for neither isn't functionally a vote for neither: it just leaves the decision up to other people.