Religious and gay: what did you do with that?

submitted by emilyprentiss from self.Lesbians

Just the title.

Personally, I grew up going to church, and I believe in God. I am gay, and I have no problem with that, and I know God doesn’t hate me, but His fan club sure is uncomfortable with ‘people like me’. At the moment I am closeted and straight-passing, and with Covid, churches haven’t been open. But I am ‘friends’ with church acquaintances on Facebook, which is how I get to know how all these religious people around me really feel about gay rights, abortion rights, etc. which they know they can’t publicly voice because society is ‘too liberal’ and they know they’ll be torn apart (rightfully!). I have only gone so far as to publicly say that I am pro-gay rights and pro-choice, and those people were not happy. But I need to establish my beliefs, I couldn’t just have stayed silent.

Half of me thinks I should go find other gay religious people (and most who don’t quit religion end up doing this), half of me thinks because these people know me, they love me, I can be the one to change their minds. If not all their minds, then at least some. I know it’s not my ‘job’ and I shouldn’t undertake this at the expense of my mental health. I don’t. I know the people who are far gone and nothing I do or say will be able to change their minds about anything, and if I come out they’ll love me but they’ll tell me they hate ‘this part’ of me. I don’t care about them. I just seriously can’t help but think I can get through to some of the others, and it gives me some hope.

I do have my own liberal circle of friends so I have support and people who love me for who I am, but I also have been talking to some people at church and have been getting them to rethink their values and beliefs. I have even done some Bible study on the passages on homosexuality (which I learnt was really a mistranslation and was meant to be about pedophilia and condemnations of lust!) so I know what I’m talking about and I know how to talk about it in their language. So, I sort of have hope about this, while also not being too naive.

Religious lesbians: what have you done physically, after you have learnt you’re a lesbian and made peace with it internally? Have you left religion? Have you gone to an inclusive church/place of worship/community? Have you stayed where you are while being out? Or are you closeted? No right or wrong answers, I just would like to hear people’s experiences.

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[–]WildwoodFlower 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can understand the appeal of staying in your current church and trying to change people's hearts and minds. And that's great if you happen to be in a church that is starting the journey to becoming more inclusive. However, if the powers-that-be within your denomination aren't likely to budge, I would recommend leaving and finding an affirming church. Why subject yourself to institutionalized homophobia in the hopes that things might change when you can be part of a welcoming community where you can worship with other lesbians and gay men?

Although many churches are closed due to Covid, you can still check them out online and maybe stream some of their services. It will give you a feel for what each church is like, and hopefully you will find one that is a good fit. If you live in or near a "gayborhood", the mainline Protestant churches in that area are probably the best place to start.

[–]emilyprentiss[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The pastor at my church is actually a very chill dude, who is very open to talking about anything and does not judge or condemn. It's more like my fellow churchgoers who are awful, to different degrees. A lot of younger people are quite liberal, so I was mainly thinking about them.

But I understand what you mean, and I know that in the long-term, I will likely end up leaving my current church for an inclusive one, just because I don't want to always be 'fighting' or feel like I'm swimming against a current.

I have not thought about checking churches out online, but it sounds like a good idea. Thanks for the advice!

[–]Lesbianese 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can't stomach religion anymore, it may not be for me. I spent years agonizing over my homosexuality, even had a plan that I'd ask for forgiveness right before I died just in case. I know there are scholars who say that it is a mistranslation but it (before TQ) became trendy to make religion more liberal and reinterpret things to make it seem accepting. I just have a hard time believing that personally and it never seemed to change the minds of any religious homophobes I told. Still heard it referred to as an abomination a lot.

Not really related to sexuality as much as faith but I have an even harder time believing in the Bible now after they've discovered that certain segments were added waaaaay later than the say they were, feels like the whole book has been tampered with. I don't mind people who have faith though and I find people who take the Bible's teachings in a more metaphorical way to be interesting people.

[–]emilyprentiss[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sorry to hear that you had to carry all that fear and worry with you for years. :( I think that's true for many gay Christians, and that part about religious homophobes never budging is so real. I think you have a totally reasonable approach. It honestly takes courage to be able to say religion is not for you, especially if you come from a religious community and/or family.

I am firmly spiritual, but I have been questioning whether religion is right for me or not for a while now. But every time I express uncertainty or reluctance to 'do church things', my family gets upset and lets me know (however subtly) that I don't have a choice. Which really sucks, and makes me afraid to tell the truth: that I don't want to participate in 'church things' not because I'm just lazy, but because my heart is not really in it anymore. But I'm almost certain they'll flip out and make me apologise for blaspheming, and once I say it I can't take it back, so I've just been trying to figure things out on the inside first.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]emilyprentiss[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Thanks for your response, it’s really thoughtful and I really enjoyed reading it.

    It is very true what you said about how being gay really forces you/anyone out of your/their ‘complacency’. I feel that way too, that I have more of a personal relationship with God and that it’s stronger because I’ve has to re-examine religion for a moment.

    Would you say you’re ‘spiritual’ and not ‘religious’? I hesitate to define myself this way, because I’m not too sure what the definitions are and if they overlap.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]emilyprentiss[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Thank you again! I have been looking for new ways to look at and interpret Christianity and the stuff in the Bible, because I am feeling suffocated by what I grew up with - which I suppose is a lot like what you call the 'surface-level Christianity' that takes everything quite literally, with little to no wriggle room.

      I like the comparison of a person to a kind of 'vessel' to conceive the mystery of Christ. I have heard that interpretation too at my church, but still, there is a great emphasis on the literal bits, which frustrates me too, to the point where I used to wonder if I was the problem because I was not really 'getting it' like everyone else was. I felt like there was not really a way for me to develop a better relationship with God because it was all rules and dogmas and none of it felt genuine to me.

      I like your little conclusion. I do agree that if there's no 'soul' involved in what your actions, you're missing the point.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      I left. I was a Catholic before (still am technically) now I go twice a year with the other twice a year Catholics. I like church communities because I'm not very impressed with the way progressive communities are going at the moment. I'm not ready to join a new church because I'm not comfortable with churches yet, however I'd be interested in doing that eventually maybe. You could always find an open an accepting church, I think that the Episcopal church in the USA is meant to be decent (but this may differ from parish to parish). I know a lot of people join covens (and get into wicca / witchcraft) as an outlet for spirituality but that's just too kooky for me.

      [–]emilyprentiss[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Thanks for your honesty! I feel you - I think 'progressive communities' are a bit of a mess right now, all over the place. And I do like the atmosphere of churches, to be honest, especially at Christmastime, or Easter. I am not in the USA, so I'll have to do a bit of research on my own as to where to go next, but I will probably not join a coven, as that is a little off the path for me too, personally!

      [–]HelloMomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I'm agnostic, I guess, but I think I'll always align more with religion than with atheism because atheism is just too male for me to deal with.

      The story goes like this: When my parents were dating, they went on a road-trip with some friends. My atheist dad and his atheist male friends were trash-talking religion and the evils of the church and whatnot, and my Catholic mon and her Catholic best friend had to tell them to shut up and stop mansplaining.

      That's a microcosm, but in my experience, it seems to be true more often than not.