Anyone else really hate drag?

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[–][deleted] 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hate drag too. I don't care if a man is gender nonconforming. If he wants to wear makeup or likes clothes or hobbies that are traditionallly feminine, that's fine with me. But drag as a supposed "art" is a joke at the expensive of women. Rarely do I ever see these drag performers who people claim are satirizing female gender roles and not actual women.

People trying to convince others of this "it's just satire bro" idea often come across to me as if they were trying to pass off men like Tyler Perry playing Madea as creative geniuses. If I wanted a critique of the artificiality of sex stereotypes I would be listening to an actual woman who is pressured to conform to them. Not a dude doing a sexualized performance. Some act like drag can't be criticized because some (not all, mind you) gay men like it. I don't care if straight women like it. Drag more often than is not misogynistic.

I hate how gaudy over-the-top displays like drag and kink are portrayed as parts of LGB culture.

[–]les4les 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hate drag, yeah. In my experience it's a very male or heterosexual female thing to like. I think that there's a place in the community for camp due to historical context but I don't like that drag is forced down everybody's throats and made such a huge deal of all the time. It is offensive to women and it baffles me to see anybody argue that it isn't

[–]candiedDagon 12 insightful - 15 fun12 insightful - 14 fun13 insightful - 15 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve been afraid of clowns since childhood

[–]VioletRemi 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, at least they are aware what they are doing, unlike those sick "transbians".

Here homophobes are most often showing transwomen and drag queens as "all gay people are like that, we do not want gay rights here!". But people are smarter now and not believing it.

Pride Parades nowadays are just a freak shows, and has nothing to do with LGB, mostly is about TQIA+ part. There even full sub about this /s/LGBDropTheT .

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. That’s what I see at pride, and also the opinions on us I see from the most uninformed of straights.

[–]yousaythosethings 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think a lot of the criticisms of drag are valid (ugh hate that word now). It’s not a hill I’m personally willing to die on though. I have met drag performers that were perfectly lovely. I’ve seen some that are terrible. That’s true for gay men generally. I’m mostly pretty far removed from this though because I don’t follow or participate in any drag culture. Where I am it is a really big thing for teenage and 20-something black gay boys/men and it gives them a community to participate in when the outside world is harsh too them. I do have concerns about grooming of young gay boys in that community.

I am 100% against the concept of drag kids, drag story hours for kids, or any involvement of kids in drag. That shit is grooming. Drag is entertainment for adults and we need to leave kids out of it. It creates a VERY bad look for “LGBT” and is everything we fought against being associated with gay people, and that is now being undone.

[–]Mobymaybe 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yea, I’m definitely against bringing kids into drag. Its adult entertainment and creepy AF if a kid is doing it.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It can be funny if it’s done well. I think casual drag like drag kings wearing their street clothes and lip syncing to some top 40 song or low-effort drag queens being sexist is the WORST.

If someone goes to a lot of effort to be entertaining and has a great name/costume/ makes it theatrical, then it can be good.

I think regular man/woman drag done by actual men and women is more offensive, tbh. People who buy into the sex stereotypes of their own sex are much worse than a bunch of homos doing a parody for entertainment.

[–]biggreensunglasses 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Depends on the drag queen to be honest. Bianca del Rio is savage and hilarious. Sasha Velour's show is pretty cool and artistic.

I see a lot of them as giving a bit of a nod to femininity, but they seem to acknowledge it's its own thing really.

Those dudes can blend like a motherfucker too 😂

[–]Tovasshi 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Depends.

If they're wearing a chest rig and trying to be a caricature of womanhood (Gia Gunn, Alyssa Edwards, etc) I cringe. If its more artistic or androgynous (like Aquaria, Bob the drag Queen, Sasha Valour), I'm all for it.

[–]TalerTest 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know. I'm indifferent to drag. I've never given it deep thought

[–]SailorMoon2020 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Excuse my language but I fucking love drag. It's not like black face where black people didn't have the ability to act in such projects, so instead movie makers depicted negative and racial stereotypes of them.

Drag came about because women could not partake in theatre productions during certain time periods and many countries from the west and even in the east use men.

There's so much to drag than what mainstream lgbt culture has turned it in. One of my go tos is to go to Japan and see of Takakenzu (misspell) Revenue, an all female theatre troupe. There's also an all male ballet troupe I'd like to see as well.

[–]lmaonope333 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

that's not true. there are women who do drag, and there were black people that did blackface. that doesnt make either of them ok as a concept, both were invented by the non minority in order to mock a caricatured version of a marginalized group, and just because a small number of member from a minority group participate in it for money it doesn't erase the negative affect that the (((art form))) has on the members of the minority

[–]SailorMoon2020 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

There are women who do drag now, yes. As for black people having done black face. I am unaware of that.

However during history, women were not allowed to be apart of theatre productions in many countries. In ancient Japan, women were allowed but then we're outlawed due to many of the were also selling other more 'personal' services behind stage. Kabuki theatre is good to start out with if you are interested in more.

In China, it was similar. Women were not allowed to do stage productions. I would highly recommend the movie or theatre play, Madame Butterfly as a glimpse into that world.

For Western society, specifically in the United Kingdom during Shakespear time, women were not allowed to participate in stage productions.

Drag is very much apart of theatre culture and history.

[–]lmaonope333 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

agreed. drag would not exist if not for the oppression of women, so I dont know why they're considered the height of wokeness. not all parts of history need to be preserved

[–]SailorMoon2020 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Many things would not exist if it weren't for the lack thereof. As I mentioned in another comment, drag goes beyond lgbt and has place within theatre with both males and females this day and age. It is vibrat, bold, and beautiful; I for one absolutely love drag in all its form for I love theatre in all its form.

[–]DifferentAirGC 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Drag was created because men thought women were inferior and shouldn't be allowed to participate in theatre, so why are you celebrating it?

And in present day drag queens are more popular and make more money than drag kings. No matter how they dress, men are still more privileged than women.

[–]SailorMoon2020 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Drag was created because men thought women were inferior and shouldn't be allowed to participate in theatre,

Why is it this argument is so widely use in this thread? So what? Feminism was created because men thought women were inferior yet it's widely celebrated by many who are LGB. It's what brought to whole "gender is a social construct" into ideology and the main voice behind the TRAs.

Planned Parenthood started out because the founder thought it was in the best interest of black mothers to abort their babies.

BET is a channel that was created because white executives didn't want black music shown on MTV.

Now that black people have rights in America, should the BET channel no longer exist?

Now that black women have better options when it comes to birth control and are less likely to commit abortion compared to other racial counterparts, should Planned Parent hood pack it up?

Because feminism started the whole bs on 'gender is a social construct' and added fuel to the TRA movement, should feminism cease to exist?

A lot of y'all up in here got this idea that just because something started out bad that it must still be bad to this day; therefore, needs to be destroy when its beneficial to y'all. When you live life through the lens of oppression then everything is oppressive. I don't live through that lens. I can see that where there is bad; there is good. I can see that what once started out bad is now good.

Did you know that today in Afghanistan women can now have their names on their child birth certificates? A lot of y'all should grow up and realize what real oppression is. Getting your clitoris chopped off to block you from sexual pleasure which will lead to "promiscuities", is oppression. An Amish woman having to give birth to her brother's baby is oppression. Black women having the highest death toll when giving birth in America because even in 2020 its still being taught in nursing text books that black women have a high pain tolerance. Let me say it louder for those in the back:

IT IS STILL BEING TAUGHT IN NURSING TEXT BOOKS THAT BLACK WOMEN(and men) HAVE HIGH PAIN TOLERANCE.

Having to run away from your job as a domestic worker because domestic workers are literally slaves in one of the richest countries in the world( Saudi Arabia) is oppression.

A man parading around in a dress, doing flamboyant movements, loud make up, singing, dancing, fashion, stand up comedy is not hurting women physically, mentally, nor emotionally. And just because there are a couple of bad incidents with a couple of bad drag queens does not mean all of drag is as such. Grow up, women. Drag is not hurting women. I can understand the trans argument but no one mfing believes that a man in a dress is actually a woman. Most people know and are aware drag is nothing but entertainment for the masses with the sole goal of providing a good laugh, a good cry, or a good dance number.

[–]DifferentAirGC 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Feminism was created because men thought women were inferior yet it's widely celebrated by many who are LGB.

Feminism was created to free women from patriarchy and is celebrated nowadays because women are STILL opressed and fighting for our rights.

A lot of y'all should grow up and realize what real oppression is.

This is the same argument men use when we point the problems women face in western countries. Implying we don't have the right to complain about anything ever because women elsewhere have it worse. No one is saying drag is the most important issue in feminism, GC is against all the things you mentioned, because you know what? People are able to care about more than 1 thing at once! Discussing drag doesn't mean we forget about everything else.

No one believes drags are real women, but drags still pretend to be women (which is why they go by she/her pronouns), and their idea of womanhood is someone who is catty, vain and dresses like a clown.

[–]SailorMoon2020 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

No one believes drags are real women, but drags still pretend to be women (which is why they go by she/her pronouns), and their idea of womanhood is someone who is catty, vain and dresses like a clown

It's called acting, my dear, and no, it is not harmful to women emotionally, physically, or mentally.

(which is why they go by she/her pronouns)

The history behind this is more on relation to African American culture, specifically black women.

and their idea of womanhood is someone who is catty, vain and dresses like a clown

I seriously doubt you've seen all theatre productions from New York to Tokyo, to Beijing to Montreal, from Mexico City to San Juan. If you seriously believe all drag is the above then I'm no better than arguing with someone who believes all cops are this. All women are that. All Jews are this...

[–]hatsofpotato 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Ok, preach!! All of what you're saying all over this thread, alllll of it! Thank you. You get it.

[–]les4les 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ooh, Ballet Trockadero! I haven't seen them but I've seen the Mark Morris dance company, also pretty famous for putting men en pointe and in female roles/costumes in ballet

[–]Starburns 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Your taste sounds impeccable and I'm very jealous you've seen Takarazuka Revue in person

[–]SailorMoon2020 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I highly recommend. I couldn't understand a word that was said lol but it was fun.

[–]whateverman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to think it was just all in good fun. But now I hate how it's exploited young boys for money and sex. Desmond Naples was sold to the drag community for clout and I'll never forgive what they've done to him or other children.

[–]knownasness 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

eh, i get it, but i don't hate it. people don't consider anything they do to be representative of actual women. even their particular brand of outrageousness is exclusive to them. no one else acts the way they do. i will say that i don't understand why we call them 'shes' tho. regardless of what they're wearing, they're still men.. makes no sense. they have always been a thing in our community and all the ones i've known have been lovely gentlemen. i think if rupaul and his show hadn't made a bigger spectacle of them, it wouldn't be as bad as it is currently.

[–]Seahorse 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No I don't mind drag and I don't tend to take it that seriously.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Seahorse 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    It was a big part of gay culture 20/30/40 years ago.

    It's probably not as much anymore but as a young lesbian I loved watching the local drag shows.

    It definitely was a huge aspect of gay culture.

    [–]hatsofpotato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    (Edited: Sorry! Just realize that I responded to the wrong comment in the thread- lol. Oh well, I'll leave it here anyways, as a comment in agreement with yours.)

    It's been for both gay men and lesbians in our history. In recent times, the straights have been getting more into it as it bled into popular culture.

    But yeah. I saw a ton of drag shows in my "baby dyke" phase in the 90s/early00s; also had a ton of gay dude friends that did drag sometimes. I guess you'd say I'm a lesbian who was raised with drag culture being a part of gay culture.

    A lot of the songs, drama, and jokes in the performances relate to gay culture in a tongue-in-cheek way. It's funny and entertaining, for both gay men and lesbians. (The straights are learning gay culture so starting to get the humor too nowadays.)

    [–]Seahorse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah I don't understand the comments saying it's straight women and gay men that like it....like what?

    I don't think some of these kids get out a lot🤣

    [–]hatsofpotato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's been for both gay men and lesbians in our history. In recent times, the straights have been getting more into it as it bled into popular culture.

    But yeah. I saw a ton of drag shows in my "baby dyke" phase in the 90s/early00s; also had a ton of gay dude friends that did drag sometimes. I guess you'd say I'm a lesbian who was raised with drag culture being a part of gay culture.

    A lot of the songs, drama, and jokes in the performances relate to gay culture in a tongue-in-cheek way. It's funny and entertaining, for both gay men and lesbians. (The straights are learning gay culture so starting to get the humor too nowadays.)

    [–]Mobymaybe 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well I don’t think drag queens and kings are trying to tell is how to be women or men. I think its just an outlet of artistic expression. I enjoy drag shows and appreciate the hard work that goes into them. I’m sure there are some toxic personalities in the group (especially escalated in tv shows) but I think its a great way to get gay folks together. I’ve never left a drag show and thought that they were making fun of women. I get that its not everyones cup of tea and that’s fine.