Have you had anyone question you for your stance on dating trans people?

submitted by reluctant_commenter from self.Lesbians

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[–]Astrid2448 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

You know, lesbians are just gay women. Appropriating gay isn’t much better than appropriating lesbian. When people hear “I’m gay” they aren’t hearing “hi, I’m a bisexual who likes appropriating this word, I like what it does for my image!”, they’re hearing “I’m gay”. There are a LOT of women like your friend and it isn’t just silly little confusion, it has an effect and it’s harmful.

[–]ghostraider 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's great, but I can't do anything about it. I exposed my POV, she exposed hers, we think different, no big deal. I would only be bothered by this if she was around proclaiming it and wearing it, but she doesn't do that unless people explicitly ask about it.

Also I said I am not in the US, you are assuming this whole thing takes place in English, which it doesn't. The exact meaning of the word "gay" is lost a bit in adopting it (she would definitely not use that equivalent of gay in her language since it is only masculine).

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

“hi, I’m a bisexual who likes appropriating this word, I like what it does for my image!”

I agree that it is harmful for bisexuals to say they are gay. However, I don't think that's why the bisexuals who do call themselves gay, call themselves gay.

I went through a phase where I suppose I technically would describe myself as bisexual if someone pressed me on whether I were lesbian-- but would say gay otherwise and in conversations. I did not do it for "image" points and I view it as a byproduct of the misogyny and lesbophobia that surrounds the word "lesbian". Because I was not ready to admit to myself that I was a lesbian, and did not feel safe enough to do so. Yet "gay" was far more accurate to my experience (attraction to women and not men).

I agree it has an effect and is harmful, but these things happen in context, not because bisexuals are all assholes. Most bisexuals don't want to call themselves gay, anyway-- they are "100% bisexual, not half gay half straight" as I have heard many times. The ones in denial, like I was, are likely young and still trying to figure things out.

[–][deleted]  (12 children)

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    [–]reluctant_commenter[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

    There is one obvious one: people thinking bisexuality is fake. My family growing up straight up believed bisexuals are all making it up, and are either gay or straight. "Those people are just saying they're attracted to women for the attention", etc.

    That is a different issue though. My point was just that people often figure out what sexual orientation they are after mistakenly thinking they are a different one, and that this is a benign reason to misuse the terms. That and not understanding that "gay" means homosexual only-- the term is often used as a blanket, and I'm not sure it ever should be.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

      There's no such thing as bisexual sex (no, not even mixed-sex threesomes

      Completely agree.

      When bisexual people call themselves gay and then pursue heterosexual relationships, they make people think homosexuality is fake or changeable.

      I agree.

      If a gay person calls their self bisexual and only pursues homosexual relationships, it doesn't counteract bisexuality.

      Correct, but what I am trying to say is-- if a bisexual person "changes" to calling themselves homosexual (really they did not change, they were homosexual all along), it makes people think that "bisexual" is just a holding-place for those sorting themselves out, not a real sexual orientation. I am not bisexual so I can't really speak to how much of an issue it is, but I know that back when I thought I was bisexual and called myself such, I heard people say that stuff.

      I agree, but I think most of the straight/bi people who use the term 'gay' are using it for the reason u/Astrid2448 mentioned. Not because they are confused about their sexuality or anything.

      I guess this sort of breaks down to our anecdotal experiences with people. I will admit my bias-- I err on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt, which is perhaps too optimistic in this situation, lol. It is possible that you are right and I am being too generous. But I know that it was the case for me, and I have read about it being the case for other people.

      I mean, It's pretty hard to not realize that you are straight or attracted to the opposite sex in this heterosexual world.

      I disagree. I was brainwashed by misogynistic and religious nutcases, though, so I suppose that is also my bias. But I think it is also more common than we think because there is so much lesbophobia on Tumblr and other places, "you have to like dick", etc.

      Probably because so many people who are not homosexual use it. It's like a vicious cycle

      Yes, but also thanks to media. E.g. "Gay pride" referring to all LGBT, that is misleading.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Hey-- I am going to have to eat my words and admit you are right on people wayyyy over-abusing the term "gay".

        I just did a data analysis on the AL survey and although AL is not representative of all LGB out there (thank god).. the results are telling. There are a lot of "bisexual lesbians" on that sub. I think I can actually address your question @ how many bisexuals are calling themselves "gay". https://saidit.net/s/Lesbians/comments/64mp/i_did_some_data_analysis_on_the_al_demographics/

        I'm really confused. Are you saying that it's hard for straight people to realize they are straight in this world? I think you misread, but I could have phrased that sentence better.

        Ah, I did misread, my bad. Sorry, I have had a ton of people on this sub tell me that "It's really hard to not realize you are gay", which is what I thought you said.

        [–]VioletRemi 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

        In my experience it is other way around. Everyone is thinking that lesbians does not exist and we are always bisexuals.

        [–]Astrid2448 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

        Lots of people don't even think straight women exist. They pressure them to try sleeping with women, too.

        [–]VioletRemi 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

        Well, according to date apps in time when I dropped them (years ago), it is true, as there were a lot of "couple searching lesbian for threesome" around. And both in couple were straight. I guess it all comes from porn, and men always pushing on their wifes their fetishes, while women often just comply (just remember that rape victim of transwoman, when her husband transitioned half a year ago and she divorced with him and even after rape she was saying that "it is woman who raped me with her penis, lesbians are rapists too"). I suppose "two hot woman" is sexy and appealing for men's eye.

        And this situation is ugly, yeah.

        [–]Astrid2448 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

        Yeah it happens a lot. Actually once I was in a bar talking to some strangers, and I saw two gay men telling their straight woman friend that she should try sleeping with women. She was unsure and they kept telling her it would be fun and she should do it.

        Would anyone do this to a straight man? Of course not. Plus plenty of bi women use being bisexual as a signal to the world for how special, sexy and openminded they are.

        [–]VioletRemi 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        Yeah, and for some reason couples never searching gay man (and almost never another man for woman). I wonder why?

        [–]Astrid2448 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Because if its two women, it benefits the man, is "no threat to the relationship", and "doesn't count as real sex" for the woman. In other words, sexism and homophobia. |:

        [–]Gearbeta 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        I think it's less they legit think women are all bisexual and more they don't give a shit what women say about their own sexuality. I've seen legit discussions on the internet where men honestly believed that no women were attracted to men. So then straight/bi women came into the thread and said yes we are attracted to them and these dudes said they didn't believe them. See also: refusing to believe lesbians are real, refusing to believe a woman could want sex in general

        [–]ghostraider 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

        In some languages "gay" can be an umbrella term. They have their own terms for gay and lesbian, the term lesbian can be more or less the same, since it comes from a place, but the word for gay can vary a lot from the english word "gay". Many times "gay" is used because it doesn't have the connotations of the native term since it has no history in that language, and it is also adopted a bit as the users want since it has no definition in their language.

        My friend calling herself gay is not the same as someone in the US calling herself gay, for her "gay" is a foreign word that it is being used as umbrella term. And that is why she doesn't use lesbian (which is similar to the native word and therefore she assumes has the same meaning). But it is difficult for US-centrists to understand this.

        [–]TalerTest 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

        The US is not the only country that speaks English. I know, I'm being obnoxious.

        [–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

        No you're being fair, we Americans need to remember that. :)

        [–]TalerTest 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

        No, it was not directed at you. u/ghostraider said : "it is difficult for US-centrists to understand this" Which I thought was a bit ironic because it seems like a very 'US-centrist' thing to say. Everyone gets mad when Americans act like the US is the only country in the world, but then they do the exact same thing and forget that there are other English-speaking countries, too. (I'm in UK btw)

        [–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

        Ah, okay, thank you for clarifying. It is something I want to keep in mind anyway though, I definitely struggle with that sometimes, as someone in the U.S.

        [–]TalerTest 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

        Nah you shouldn't even care. I think it's silly that people expect Americans to know everything about every country. I've noticed that it's only Americans who get reprimanded for this. People from other countries can speak from their experiences as though their location is the only one in the world and no one bats an eyelash.

        [–]reluctant_commenter[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Lol, that's funny, I've seen that too but I guess I just sort of assumed Americans were the worst about it. It would probably be better if we all learned about other countries.

        [–]ghostraider 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        "My friend calling herself gay is not the same as someone in the US calling herself gay, for her "gay" is a foreign word that it is being used as umbrella term. And that is why she doesn't use lesbian (which is similar to the native word and therefore she assumes has the same meaning). But it is difficult for US-centrists to understand this."

        I didn't really want to get into this but since I was tagged twice... No, it is not "the exact same thing" and nor I forgot that there are other English-speaking countries, I assumed that someone from the UK wouldn't make that mistake. ;) But maybe my assumption is wrong and you are the same as US.

        [–]ghostraider 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        You are right, it is also difficult for UK-centrists :D

        [–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        That totally makes sense. Maybe I should specify I mean those words in the U.S. English sense.

        And that is why she doesn't use lesbian (which is similar to the native word and therefore she assumes has the same meaning). But it is difficult for US-centrists to understand this.

        Ahhh, I getcha. That does make a difference.