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Political Lesbianism is not forced lesbianism/fake lesbianism.

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[–]a_blue_bird 17 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

My actual point is that your claim ''Women that were not attracted to other women were not cosplaying lesbians in the 60s and 70s, for Christ’s sake'' is simply false. Not only did they do it then, but they are still doing it now. And they're not even hiding any of their views on sexuality being a social construct, as opposed to a fixed, innate trait.

Most women who end up lesbian think they are heterosexual

True if you take into account all the political lesbians.

Edit: do you support women who have slept with men never coming out?

I support women who say ''I used to be heterosexual once'' never coming out as lesbians.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

POLITICAL LESBIAN DOES NOT MEAN THEY FUCKED WOMEN. They were not out there being literal fake lesbians luring in women to have fake lesbian sex with and that was the whole movement. They were centring women and women’s issues politically. “Political lesbianism.” They were in the political lesbian movement, and called themselves “political lesbians.” Which does not mean sex with women as a given. It was just possible. I like the idea of a world where realising you’re a lesbian is possible. Many women don’t even know how to get off, let alone get off with a partner. Man or woman.

The word “lesbian” is clearly what is getting confused here. Lots of lesbians WERE “heterosexual” if you count their behaviour in dating and sleeping with men. That is heterosexual behaviour. I doubt many lesbians who did that would have called themselves “formerly straight” but instead say they came out.

And like or or not, some women really do get to choose (bisexuals) and sometimes think they are lesbians or straight for years. We all had to choose to explore and people like Sheila Jeffreys said it was okay, and lots of us are here now experiencing a different kind of oppression from those who think gender is INNATE. Etc. I’m not a fan of lesbian cosplayers any more than the rest of you, I’m a goldstar, but I doubt I could have been a goldstar if not for the idea that some women are lesbians and I got to explore that, and it’s directly related to what women did in the 60s and 70s.

[–]a_blue_bird 19 insightful - 6 fun19 insightful - 5 fun20 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

They were centring women and women’s issues politically.

Absolutely, lol. When Sheila Jeffreys writes ''sexuality is not fixed, it is an old fashioned 19th century sexological belief that lesbianism is innate'' she actually means ''you should shop in women owned stores and vote for abortion rights!'' Wow, how did I not connect the dots myself??

We all had to choose to explore and people like Sheila Jeffreys said it was okay

No, people like Sheila said that sexuality is a social construct, and it is anti-feminist to still choose to fuck men when you can socialize yourself into lesbianism. She constantly uses the word sexuality for a reason. It is about sex.

To put it simply - you're in massive denial about political lesbianism.

[–]oofreesouloo 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

So they were not centring women and women’s issues?

It is possible to disagree with her, and believe that lesbianism is innate to many of us, without making an entire political movement and my defence of it to me being “in massive denial.” It takes a lot more denial to be so reductive about a entire movement for women.

[–]oofreesouloo 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

So if me, as a lesbian, decided now that I only wanted to date men because I firmly believe in the "traditional" view of the family and believe the child should have a mother and a father, I could call myself a political straight woman? See how ridiculous that is? (this was just a random example). Again, I don't care about the reasons - it's NOT right to say you're a lesbian when you're not. Simple as that. You can fight for women's rights without resorting to the lesbian label, jeeeez.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I see how ridiculous your example is. I would call you a “typical straight woman,” and lots of women who are stuck in religious homes actually do deny their own lesbianism and political lesbianism and the original discussions about comphet actually helped them not have to do that. Btw it was still legal to RAPE your wife in the 60s in America. That’s the world that Political Lesbians tried to save women from. Your husband could rape you. Being politically a lesbian meant loving women and yourself enough to try to save eachother from THAT.

But you know, what a bunch of fakers. I wish they stayed married to men who were legally allowed to rape them instead of considering becoming an asexual or celibate woman and joining the Political Lesbian movement to live with women and be safe.

[–]oofreesouloo 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Again, I have nothing against them becoming an asexual or celibate woman and heck, even creating a political movement. Just don't call it lesbianism! Simple.

[–]lairacunda 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"I wish they stayed married to men who were legally allowed to rape them instead of considering becoming an asexual or celibate woman and joining the Political Lesbian movement to live with women and be safe."

But why do you have to lie about being a lesbian?

[–]lairacunda 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

POLITICAL LESBIAN DOES NOT MEAN THEY FUCKED WOMEN

That's my point exactly. And if you don't fuck women and you're a woman, how exactly is it that you are a lesbian?

You can center women, you can walk away from men and the patriarchy all you want. But fucking women is the sine qua non of being a lesbian.

We don't all "choose to explore". Even if you're comp-hetting you know you are living a lie.

You can have an unhappy, straight relationship trying to make it work and lying to yourself. Just because you go through the motions of being straight doesn't mean you ARE straight. So, "Lots of lesbians WERE “heterosexual” " is a self-cancelling statement. If they were heterosexual then they are not lesbians. If they are lesbians then they were lesbians pretending and trying to be straight.