Gender dysphoria (not trans)

submitted by reluctant_commenter from self.Lesbians

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[–]Ricky_Ticky 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

If it's really dysphoria that a lesbian woman is experiensing, then she can't be a lesbian, I suppose. I heard from a few lesbian friends that they once thought they felt dysphoric but realized later that it was some sort of "penis envy" that has gotten so strong at some point that they confused it with dysphoria.

Certain circumstances in their lives have led them to wish so much they were born males because life would be so much easier, that they started to subconsciously hate their female bodies and kinda blame the bodies for all the problems. The friends I am talking about were not all butch. Some were butch and some pretty femme

[–]VioletRemi 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I lived through self hate as well, and I am very femme. I tried to look boy-ish during self hate periods, thought.

[–]piylot 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What's your reasoning behind saying a woman can't experience dysphoria and be a lesbian?

I believe a woman can feel a strong internal sense of discomfort or dissonance between her sex either in the practicalities of her biology or how it leads to her being perceived by society, and still understand that she is a woman, choose to live as a woman and not take on any identities in terms of gender other than woman. If that woman is exclusively attracted to other women then she's a lesbian. If we define woman as female adult human, then I don't see how experiencing gender dysphoria means you can't be a lesbian.

[–]Ricky_Ticky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think if a woman is experiencing dysphoria she is transgender, not lesbian. Dysphoria can be easily confused with so many other conditions, be it body dysmorphia, autoandrophilia or a sense of permanent discomfort that comes from not meeting heteronormative social expectations.

I agree with you that a woman with dysphoria can choose to live as a woman. But that does not make her a lesbian who chose to live as a woman, she is trangender who chose not to transition.

[–]piylot 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If a woman is experiencing dysphoria she's a woman though right? A woman attracted to other women.

Do you believe the person should more accurately be described as a man? Or do you see transgender as a third category?

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am also curious about this as well. I think it partly depends on how you define "woman" and "transgender".

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Huh, I guess I am not sure what dysphoria is, then. It is (at least in part) a feeling that you reject and hate your body parts, right?

Certain circumstances in their lives have led them to wish so much they were born males because life would be so much easier, that they started to subconsciously hate their female bodies and kinda blame the bodies for all the problems.

That makes a lot of sense. It also makes sense to me how any woman could arrive at that conclusion, not just butches.

[–]Ricky_Ticky 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I believe dysphoria is when you know you are supposed to have male body, be called he and sir and just live your life as male.

What dysphoria is not (from how I understand it) is when woman has masculine-ish face and big breasts and she hates her breasts and dreams to have a Shane type of body:). Or when a woman falls in love with another woman but realizes the woman is straight and she thinks "oh if I were a dude I would have a chance".

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ah, okay. I think I had a different idea of what dysphoria is then, because I have heard many places that some lesbians can have gender dysphoria but not be trans (not want to be a male).

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Ah okay. Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it. :) I think some of the confusion is because people seem to define the word differently. I am not sure how much that has been influenced by the trans rights movement of the past few years.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Ricky_Ticky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Now I am confused. Let's say a woman is attracted to females exclusively and at the same she consistently dreams of growing a beard and having male genitals. Theoretically she is a bio-woman who is into females. But is she a lesbian?

      [–]piylot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      "Bio-woman" is redundant if you're defining woman as a biological category. If we define woman as adult female human, then whatever thoughts or feelings she has have no effect on defining her as a woman.

      If you define a woman as someone who feels comfortable and enjoys following the expected female sex role and portraying the expected female image, then the person you've described is a "man".

      Depends what definition you take. That's the split opinions.