Ever noticed that lesbians have the least spaces out of the LGBT community?

submitted by RedditHatesLesbians from self.Lesbians

There are many, many, many very active trans subs. Lots of specific ones, lots of meme ones, subs ranging from talking about surgeries to helping partners of trans people. Many subs for gay men, with ones as specific as r/askgaybros that's very popular too, while r/asklesbians only has 1k subs. Lesbians seem to be a minority within a minority and we don't really have many spaces anywhere. Even the most popular lesbian space on reddit, AL, is overrun by trans people, and of course we've already been banned. The question is, are real lesbians really just unicorns and that's why we don't have as many spaces? There's just no demand for them? Or is it something else? There's no lesbian equivalent of r/suddenlygay or r/suddenlybi and all lesbian subreddits are so niche.

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[–][deleted] 45 insightful - 2 fun45 insightful - 1 fun46 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Lesbians have always had less spaces. Lesbians meet women and then stop going out as much. Gay men seem to congregate more than lesbians. It’s always been like that. Lesbians are more likely to do things together that don’t involve dedicated spaces, like dinners etc. Lesbians also generally make less money than gay men, so that factors into it. I think we just don’t tend to party as much after a while.

Plus our spaces started being taken over by majority bisexual/queer women with male partners as we became more accepted in society, and that was the first thing that sort of pushed lesbians out, then when the gender identity trend started gaining momentum that became alienating as well. I think a lot of women just chose to stop participating because it was annoying. Now it’s pretty hateful

[–]SailorMoon2020 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Agreed, but I also think it has to do with lesbians since the first documentation of female same sex attraction were always secretive with only a select group being welcome into the fold.

It's like a luxury for lesbians to be with other lesbians, and if one doesn't have the money then their options are small and few.

Also, I think we don't really support businesses aimed at us. I know trans people are all over sites like Reddit but in real life, have y'all actually met one? The reality of it is most of those trans women on Reddit are ridiculously unattractive and unappealing to look it. Rarely do they ever have the balls to leave their keyboard. I understand the desire to blame the trans on this one but the reality of it is, lesbians tend to just not gravitate to places geared for us or targeted toward due to already having inner circles being established.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I’ve met lots of trans people in real life. I have close trans friends. Most of the lgbt spaces in my city (a very large city), have very few lesbians in them. It’s mostly Q, T, Bi and non binary now. The only community members that have their own spaces are gay men. Every woman’s space is co-opted by anyone but lesbians. I think a lot of lesbians are just sick of being the group that has to include everyone so they stop going out. Other reasons, as well, but it’s alienating to even try to go into the community. What you see on dating apps is what exists in reality where I am

[–]SailorMoon2020 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think we have ourselves to blame for this. Gay clubs and even clubs in general have no problem telling people they don't desire 'no' at the front door even if it's straight up discrimination like the clubs in LA that don't let black women in, or the gay clubs that don't let femmes in.

Everyone knows the gay male community is discrimatory, ignorant, and arrogant and generally speaking, they're okay with having this shallow image portrayed onto them.

So what is it we are afraid of to tell people we do not desire 'no' at the front door? Are we afraid of harrassment, the negative publicity, etc?

Discrimination laws are great but it makes it even harder to exclude those you do not desire without creating an elitist group such as the Hollywood Sewing Circle.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Well, not enough of us have self defence or weapons training of any kind, not that I am advocating for it or anything, but I think women feel more likely to be targets of actual male violence. And also women generally seem to have more empathy for other minorities etc, gay men have a history of being straight up beaten and abandoned by society, including their families. Probably not as much now as in the past, but they are less likely to be worried about looking bad in a world that is indifferent to hateful toward them. Gay men are still being killed for being gay in some places. I’m personally not afraid of being a dyke everyone hates but I have years fight training and whatnot.

But where I live it’s illegal to exclude people based on gender identity and it would absolutely ruin a business if the public heard about it, even if it was just a bar for lesbians. It’s not that you can’t decide who comes into your establishment, but the constant harassment and protests would make it way harder. People are much more horrible to women than they would dare to be to men.

Edit: So it is not so simple to blame ourselves exclusively. We should have better boundaries on an individual level, but this has become a societal problem now. I mean being shut down for being considered “bigots” or “terfs” or whichever group it is that counters the popular narrative. Even vegans get businesses shut down where I live. Lol

Edit again: Also, not all trans ppl and non-lesbians are horrible. The majority are fine and don’t cause problems as individuals, but something seems to happen when there is some indication of “exclusion” or “bigot terfs” and people stop using their brains and just attack without thinking. I have friends who are totally cool but become rabid nutcases over this issue. It’s definitely like a borg collective

[–]SailorMoon2020 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reasonably put.

[–]LesbiSilly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ever thought of a lesbian speakeasy?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It would be fun to make one with an actual 20s30s theme

[–]LesbiSilly 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Love it!

[–]Debaser 36 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 0 fun37 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's why I think it's so important for places like this to exist.

We are already 'invisible' in many respects so it's sadly not surprising that our online spaces end up shared or hijacked by other groups.

The latest banwave only serves to reinforce this, that the moment we attempt to create a space just for us, our refusal to share is interpreted as discriminatory and exclusionary.

I'm so tired of womanhood and my lesbian identity being open for anyone else to claim. They cant understand why we are fed up. Its the epitome of entitlement. End rant.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, lesbian spaces are not bags of communal popcorn that everyone can stick their grubby hands into.

[–]writerlylesbian 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Lesbian spaces are relentlessly targeted, that’s why. The spaces either end up becoming ‘inclusive’ ie, no longer for lesbians, or they get destroyed because the organisers and participants eventually give up.

Even when all the rl spaces are gone, and all that’s left is one tiny space on reddit, that is still too much, and must also be targeted.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Yeah, that was a major bummer. I can’t even fathom how they thought true lesbians was a hate group. They have basically made us hate them now

[–]writerlylesbian 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

What's driving the ideology is misogyny and homophobia. It doesn't matter how many times you or anyone else try to explain nicely that you/we just want our own space. Wanting our own space IS the problem to these people. The regressive left have been demonising lesbians in this way for years. The left-wing and LGBT media all published multiple articles celebrating the end of Michfest in 2015, because it was apparently such a 'hateful' space. In reality, it was a festival where lesbians could get together and have a good time. But because the lesbians said 'no dicks' that was a hate crime, apparently. I have seen so many lesbians waste hours of their lives trying to argue in good faith with these abusers. Never be drawn into a situation where you are trying to justify why you should get to have your boundaries. Do you ever see men doing that? Nope. Forget about all the lies the left tells about being pro-woman, pro-gay etc. None of it stands up to scrutiny, sadly. Not saying that the right is any better, obviously. But the left are not the friends of lesbians.

[–]SpatOuttheKoolaid 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I have always considered myself a progressive until the last few weeks. I still consider myself part of the left, but this past month has really made me open my eyes to the left, really really made me look at cancel culture, and I've been noticing more and more mysogyny in the left as I've been on my peak trans journey over the last couple of years. I never thought I wouldn't say I was a progressive, but I can't see TRA stuff, "sex work" stuff, cancel culture, political violence, book burning, censorship as remotely progressive. I will never be on the right but my eyes are deeply open. The more I open my eyes the more "politically homeless" I feel as a lesbian. We wouldn't even be able to physically gather in a group (as we an here) in a liberal city--rather that be in a "terf meeting" or an old fashioned lesbian bar... without being violently attacked by the left, and that's terrifying

[–]writerlylesbian 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Okay, so I'm about to say something. It's something I've said before on multiple occasions, and sometimes I've had people get very upset with me (without being able to actually refute my point). The Left destroyed the lesbian movement in Western Democratic Societies, not the Right. Obviously, the far right isn't fond of the LGB (or the T for that matter). In countries like Russia, far-right governments in Eastern Europe, not to mention other countries like Brazil etc. - gay people get a shit deal, and a very dangerous deal. Not disputing that.

However, if we're going to talk about the much-vaunted democracies of numerous countries like the US, Canada, UK, Western Europe, Australia, NZ - then it was the Left who successfully got all the lesbian spaces and lesbian political advocacy shut down, not the Right.

The proof of how much the Left hates us is evident from the fact that we are even here, on this platform. Saidit would probably be largely regarded as a right-wing space. And while the Saidit crowd seem to certainly be rather bemused to suddenly find themselves flooded with LGB and feminist refugees, they are at least letting us have our fucking spaces here for now, however begrudgingly.

One of the only groups in the US who has let lesbians speak publicly about the issues affecting us is the Heritage Foundation, a conservative Christian organisation. And the lesbians who did that and went and spoke there, because they believed it was so important to actually get the word out about what was happening, were immediately cancelled by the Left for aligning themselves with religious bigots. Refuse to let the lesbians speak, then punish them for going and speaking to the people who would listen. Lovely.

I think a lot of people really need to seriously interrogate (to themselves) what their values actually are - what does 'left' mean to them? What does 'progressive' mean? What is the future they want to see? Are the political parties/individuals they support actually working towards that vision? If not, who is? Most people don't really think about these things very deeply (and I think increasingly many are too scared, too apathetic, too confused or too disgusted by politics to want to go anywhere near it) and have a very superficial allegiance to a nebulous set of values that makes them feel good, but which in fairly disconnected from the way their political parties are working in the real world.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This isn't really true. Take a look at the main drivers behind the trans movement - it isn't a group of leftists, it is actually a group of billionaires. The fact the left has eaten up the fake science and propaganda disseminated by the media is true. But they are not the source of the problem. As much as I understand the frustration we have with "the left", we have to understand what is really happening here and hold those people accountable. According to this article, the trans movement is led by a group of rich, white men - with the main goal of selling drugs and raking in the profits. A lot of young people have bought the lies and fallen prey to the movement. Most of them aren't inherently bad. Some opportunistic men are taking advantage and wreaking havoc on women. But this would not be possible without the sponsorship and promotion of this agenda by the media, doctors, drug companies, etc.

[–]writerlylesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think it's too reductive to simply point to one cause, or one group, and say, it's them! they did this! The trans thing has a fairly long and complex history, and it was a combination of factors that got us to where we are now, not just one group pulling strings behind the scenes. Also, even if we allow that the 'true actors' pushing this are a group of rich, conservative men, it's absolutely undeniable that the Left has taken up this cause and run with it. They are not questioning the media, doctors, drug companies and all the rest, they are supporting it. Maybe some of them have been hoodwinked, but that still makes me question the efficacy of the people in a political movement who are so easily manipulated.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I respectfully disagree. I guarantee you that as soon as the funding dries up, the movement will disappear as fast as it appeared. There will still be trans people, don't get me wrong, but the massive amounts of money and power they have now will cease to exist.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The right is using the lgb right now, same as the left. Don’t be fooled. The truth is that none of them really care much about us, but we have more allies among the left. They just failed to take away the rights of trans and gender-non-conforming people (I.e. butch lesbians, etc) to be discriminated against in the workplace. If they would have been able to exclude trans people from employment the rest of us would have been screwed too, as I understand it, they are also pretty much constantly trying to take away the right to abortion, and any LGB related education in schools. Not just trans. The right is not on our side.

Also: lesbians have always been vilified on the right and the left. They didn’t want us in the women’s movement at all. I just think we stand a better chance of negotiating within the left if they ever get their shit together. But I am not American so if you are, maybe it’s different for you. From outside America, the right seem to pretty consistent with outdated religious ideals, gender shit, anti-woman takes (especially in regard to our bodily autonomy), pro-gun, and homophobic values (they don’t really know the different between a trans woman and a gay man, and that was pretty clear when I watched the Julia Beck stuff, and the left doesn’t either).

[–]writerlylesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

My position has always been that neither the left or the right care about women's issues. I'm just not sure I agree that there are more allies among the left, more reasonable people among the left, that there is more room for negotiation with the left - I don't think those things are borne out by what is playing out on the ground.

I'm also not sure I agree that the right is rabidly anti-gay and religious everywhere. (May be in the US, I don't live there). Certainly if we look at the UK, it's the political conservatives who are currently stepping up to protect women's rights and putting some boundaries around the transing of kids. And it's not being done from a Bible-thumping perspective. (I don't live in the UK either, but I'm a lot more familiar with what's happening over there, and have spent time in the country so I have a better idea of what it's like culturally).

I also dislike this idea that women/lesbians are so dumb they can't go near a conservative group without being hoodwinked into somehow working for some secret anti-gay agenda. Someone so lacking in political astuteness probably shouldn't be an activist in the first place, and will be hoodwinked by everyone regardless of what agenda they're pushing.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The anti-gay agendas are not a secret with many of these organizations though. I don’t think these women are dumb, I just think they are willing to throw lesbians under the bus. I think they know what they are doing exactly and are willing to see lesbians as collateral damage. Many of them are not lesbians, and are in positions where they wouldn’t be affected by laws allowing gender non-conforming women to be fired alongside trans people. I just can’t sign on for something like that, personally.

It’s a pretty difficult situation and I admire the courage of people like Julia Beck who was obviously conflicted about what she was doing. I hope the people she and wolf have allied themselves with are not anti-gay and anti-woman, but I am not hopeful.

I agree about women’s issues, no one cares about them, but the right tries harder to stop abortion and that is an intensely hypocritical position considering their other views.

[–]writerlylesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wasn't saying I think the right-wing women are dumb, I was saying that it's pretty infantalizing to assume that feminists and/or lesbians are too politically naive to be able to make strategic alliances on certain issues and not be taken advantage of by the Big Bad Right. And anyone who IS that politically naive, will be taken advantage of by everyone. (Which does happen pretty regularly in activist groups, especially inexperienced groups).

It is also an abuser tactic, to tell the person (or in this case class) being abused that the rest of the world hates them so much that they are safest with the abuser and will fail and be even worse off if they leave the 'protection' of the abuser. That's pretty much what the Left has been doing to women and the LGB for a while. Don't have the patience to be lectured to like that by the dude-bros, personally.

If the Left are going to refuse to let lesbians speak, and then turn around the demonise the lesbians for going and speaking on another platform, then that is a problem wholly created by the Left, not the lesbians. And of course the Left is going to be angry at the lesbians for not doing what they're told, because it's about control. The right wing thing is just obfuscation. If those lesbians had been hosted by the Most Left Wing Socialist Society Ever! (TM), the Left still would have been just as angry about it. They just would have made up different bullshit reasons as to why the lesbians were wrong.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think some critics, like myself, are responding to actual things and actual deeds, not just the “idea” of the right as Big Evil. I think unilaterally holding up the left as to blame is the exact same thing the left does. The left and right react to eachother publicly. That’s about all they do in public, but the legislation they are pushing is the thing to pay attention to.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't know what country you're in, but the US in general is vastly more right wing and religious than their European counterparts. Religion still plays a huge role, especially in conservative politics. We can't go near them, they don't want us, and every policy they support, I oppose. We have zero common ground. The left certainly has it's problems too. Neither of them care about women. But going from one wolf to another is just dumb and pointless. We need an alternative.

[–]writerlylesbian 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not in the US. And yes, even from the perspective of an outside observer, it does seem that fundamentalist religion plays a big role in politics. However, my initial point wasn't about anything to do with the right being better than the left, or that we should 'ally' ourselves with the right, or that the right are our friends. The point I made was that it has largely been those on the left, and left-wing organisations, which have SUCCESSFULLY dismantled lesbian spaces, and the ability of lesbians to advocate politically on our own behalf. Yes, I'm sure the right have all sorts of things they'd like the bring in and enact. But they haven't been successful at it, at least not to date. While the Left has.

[–]SpatOuttheKoolaid 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm really starting to open my eyes to this.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly, any kind of “terf” activity is heavily protested by fucking triggered clowns.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’ve seen people say dumb shit like “segregating people is not the answer,” but actually, when you’re less than 2% of the global population (lesbians), you do need your own spaces because finding each other is difficult and we need to be able to support one another without harassment. Lesbian women are the only group who are not allowed to gather together, it is absolute homophobia and misogyny. And it is SO OBVIOUS. I mean, we wanted to be able to gather alone when it was just lesbians and bisexuals, before all the transitions. Lesbians wanted to be able to gather alone because the bisexual community was filling with women who were not that into women, and it was a problem that we couldn’t have lesbian only spaces THEN. You don’t see us cruising into trans a bi spaces and yelling at people and practicing “whataboutery” when bisexuals are DOUBLE OUR NUMBER. The far right and the far left are almost identical in strategy, but the right have been arseholes for longer so they are better at it. Lol.

But you’re right, arguing is absolutely pointless because both sides want to tell women what to do and what’s good for them, and somehow it always involves being available to men. Lolol

[–]writerlylesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

These people don't understand the history and purpose of the actual civil rights movements, which is what they are lazily referencing. The idea was everyone should have the same 'civil rights' - ie civilian rights - in terms of participation opportunities in society. Like right to an education, to a career of their choice, right to vote, own property, have bank accounts, the right to keep their own money, to run for political office if they wanted to, to live where they wanted to - those kinds of things.

It did not mean every entitled arsehole gets to barge their way into whatever minority group they feel like, because they're 'excluded' by not being part of that minority. Lesbians are not hoarding political and social power from anyone by gathering together. In the warped view of the QT, though, what we are 'hoarding' is the 'lesbian identity' - which they think they should be entitled to claim, and which they think they CAN claim if they can just bully lesbians enough into pretending to go along with their bullshit. Which is utterly insane, because you're either a lesbian, or you're not. If you're not, then nothing can make you one. End of.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel bad for people who want to be lesbians but can’t. Being a lesbian is great despite all this new/old bullshit. But yes, people who reference huge movements as examples of why this or that is bad today are like logical fallacy factories. The trans movement basically copies every big movement. One of my friends was like “you know.....they tried to vilify gays just like this..they said gays were mentally ill perverts.” GAY is a sexual orientation. gay rights are not the same as “wrong body feelings” that require the entire world to be part of the treatment plan. Gays wanted to be left alone to live their lives, not change the meaning of man and woman. It’s completely different stuff.

And now they use intersex and two spirit as supports of trans ideology. Those groups are pretty damn irritated too

[–]paleolithicat 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I wasn't aware of this for a long time or somehow didn't want to accept it, but the truth is, it is plain.old.misogyny&patriarchy.

GBT are better presented because they involve men in their lines. Now bare with me.

  1. I recently read a journalistic book which sort of followed the whole development of the "gay issue" politically and socially throughout the last 60-70years (it is called "Global Gay" by Frederic Martel in case you are interested). And what I had to notice is how little lesbian content there was. Yes, there are lesbians in some of those organizations fighting on a political level and so on. Yes, there are lesbians on high level positions who have changed things for the better and fought for the cause. But generally - when the author was travelling in different countries, there were no spaces exclusively for lesbians. There were the gay clubs, the gay spots, the gay bars, the gay this, the gay that (Ok, he is a gay man I believe so ofc he is more interested to visit them but I am pretty sure he would have visited lesbian spaces as well if they actually existed). I live in Europe and I notice that too. We wanted to visit a lgbt club once in Rome while on a trip and security told us it is a gay-only party tonight, so no ladies allowed in. I fully respect that but I want to see the same with no men allowed. I really do.

  2. Have you watched Gaycation with Ellen Page? I was quite happy she did such a format, so I followed it. For those who don't know it, shortly: Ellen Page and a gay pal of hers go to a different country every episode and try to show the LGBT situation in it in the span of 40minutes or so. Why did I watch? I was curious ofc for the general LGBT situation but also purely egoistically, I was super interested in the L-part of things. I actually realized that only later when this part started getting less and less minutes in an episode. At some point it was not more than 5 minutes per episode concentrating on lesbian issues and all the rest was G and T!

There are probably thousand more examples, but slowly I started realizing what you wrote - lesbians have less spaces. Then I thought, it is probably because lesbians don't go out as much or don't party or just aren't the type to form networks like gay men blablabla. But come on - we are writing here right now bc we got KICKED out from our platform in reddit. I created an insta account a few days ago to make relatable lesbian puns targeted at other lesbians in my region - with the idea to use it as a platform to connect lesbians to each other later if it works out (sharing events etc). It got deactivated from instagram on the second day. I have no idea why. It just stopped existing.

Lesbians are women. Women are in a worse position in society. We stop seeing it sometimes because SOME women have it damn good. But when you look at the lesbian situation, you look at the REAL female situation. Because lesbians are fundamentally "free" from anything male.

[–]winterwillow 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you, amazing comment! While there are similarities between gays and lesbians, there are also differences, because we are men and women. Gay men aren't feminists by default, and gay culture isn't lesbian culture by default either.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is the answer. There are tons of men only spaces. I can't think of a single women-only space, lesbian or not. Women are just not allowed to congregate and exclude men.

[–]Kimaris 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Lesbians almost always keep to themselves plus we're not really into the whole hookup culture. I think, as a whole we're largely monogamous. It would be nice to have a lesbian cafe with book/band focus on weekends though so we could have more lesbian friends.

[–]paleolithicat 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That is not true.

Lesbians may be largely more loyal than other sexuality groups (which also isn't proven through anything besides some people's observations, is it?) but that doesn't mean they are not really into the whole hookup culture. Actually it annoys me to keep hearing that because it is perpetrating a stereotype that is harmful for the community in my opinion. Lesbians are not different from heterosexual women. Some enjoy one night stands, casual sex, flings, harmless flirting, no strings attached, whatever whatever, and some don't.

The fact that there aren't such spaces or that "hookup culture" is frowned upon by some lesbians, is more of a consequence of not wanting to have something in common with anything "heterosexual" and "male-driven" like hookups, or more so with how they normally get portrayed.

[–]Kimaris 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Harmful? Sorry, it might just be my 3rd world brain at work here but how is not being prone to more STDs a bad thing? I mean, you do you. But I like how lesbians have a low stat numbers on that topic. Also, I never heard of hookup culture being frowned upon by lesbians because they don't want to be like other people. That's just silly. No one, especially a random group of lesbians can enforce what other lesbians/women do. If they have that much influence then we can control all the bisexual women who misuse the label lesbian and stop the stupid "lesbians do dick" bs. But we can't do that now can we.

I don't have any other lesbian to compare myself to so I can only use myself. I'm absolutely loyal to my partner and I tried to do hookups (when I was single). I can't. I literally can't will myself to even though I had countless opportunities to. No one told me I CAN'T do hookups. Lmao. That's hilarious btw. If you want to do hookups. Literally no one is stopping you.

[–]paleolithicat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, all good. I do me, you do you. You used the pronoun "we" though when describing how YOU are. And implied that lesbians as a whole are not into something or have certain traits. Which is simply untrue. A massive generalisation and a stereotype. That's all.

[–]Dravidian 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's like 50 floats at the Paris pride parade. There's only one Lesbian one and I wouldn't be surprised if it was full of TIMs. There's less than three lesbian bars in Paris. There's no space for us anywhere.

[–]Ricky_Ticky 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think the reason is that there are just not enough lesbians to keep these places going. Bars, clubs, saunas and hotels for gay men exist because they can survive as a business. Bars, restaurants, hotels for lesbians? It even sounds unrealistic.

I don't think TQ community is to blame. They certainly made lesbians' lives harder but the lack of spaces for lesbians has been a problem long before TQ rhetoric became mainstream.

I don't know why the number of gay females is so disproportionate to the number of gay males. But I would really like to know that

[–]paleolithicat 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

See my comment in this thread. I am pretty sure the numbers are similar if you count in 1. huge numbers of comphets who repress their sexuality unknowingly/stay closeted for years, if not for their whole life; 2. many "bisexual" women who actually crave only girls but comphet world makes them have/seek relations with men.

I agree the idea about lesbian-only places like hotels, restaurants etc sounds unrealistic. But it has more to do with being female than with being lesbian in my opinion. How many women-only spaces do you know? Spare me the ones who are connected to men indirectly and have existed since ages in patriarchal societal forms too - like pregnancy, mother, housewife circles etc.

I agree though that it isn't the TQ community solely to blame in the case. They are just an additional factor nowadays.

[–]Ricky_Ticky 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How many women-only spaces do you know?

You are right! I can't name any besides those where women discuss babies and boyfriends. It has never crossed my mind how terrible the situation actually is. But well... If so many women follow the comphets path, what can they expect...

[–]Dykexmachina 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It may be true that there are less actual, genuine lesbians than most other sexualities, but the BTQ is absolutely responsible for the disappearance of lesbian spaces. There is a long, documented history of this happening.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have. Is there just less lesbians or something? I always wondered why before all this other stuff.

[–]Dykexmachina 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's because lesbian-only spaces have either been shut down or consistently invaded by non-lesbians to the point that it's no longer a lesbian space. Look at what happened to Michfest, and lesbian/feminist bookstores, and the lesbian spaces online that are being banned, etc.

The book "The Disappearing L: Erasure of Lesbian Spaces and Culture" by Bonnie J. Morris is decent if you want to learn some of the history behind this. This has been happening for many years.

[–]Fuckyoucensorship 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My guess is gender stats of user base.

Reddit is heavily male bent in terms of user base so it's fitting that most subs there have a male focus. Obviously most men don't have a reason to create lesbian spaces. However, go to tumblr you're drowning in lesbians as the site has a primarily female base. Unfortunately its also pretty over run with terf hate and catering to transwomen but I'd guess that's where the numbers are hiding.