"Capitalism Rewards Efficiency"

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[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

I think this is silly. There is obviously a lot of waste occuring when one looks at land usage, material usage, and use of labor. There's a massive wealth inequality which only makes sense in a capital-focused society.

[–]One_Jack_Move 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

On the contrary, when trying to accomplish a large-scale process like feeding a populous, there would be far more waste if a single head-of-state, or government department attempted to do it on their own.

Or do you think if everyone just grew a tree and some other crops they could feed a city?

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

I know if we weren't consumers and were producers like our ancestors, we'd be more stable and fulfilled as individuals. If you think my answer to capitalism is government-rule, you are mistaken. I believe scientific, naturalist clan-based democratic monarchies are the future, not industrial oligarchies like capitalism or communism.

[–]One_Jack_Move 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I feel you, you are right that consumerism has left folks feeling empty inside (as it should). There must be balance. But we can't fight human nature (greed). Of course, you can bend human nature with incentives. There is certainly room for more production and less consumerism inside Capitalism. People should be shown that buying shit won't fill their hearts, and that having responsibilities is a better way to finding meaning. But I digress...

Capitalism isn't perfect, it's just the best we've got. The harder part is keeping Free Markets - and reminding people it's not all about the Benjamins.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Human nature isn't inherently sinful. I don't accept that judeo-christian viewpoint.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You mean purely Judaic. Christians are the offspring of their father, the loving God who created them in His image. How could they be inherently bad? They are not, obviously. They are... INFLUENCED.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I see what you are saying, but it still stands that every Christian I have ever met believes, foolishly I might add, that humans are inherently sinful (except maybe you, I don't know if you would call yourself a Christian)

Influenced, yes, that's what I'm currently reading about.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I would like to bring this to your attention then: https://saidit.net/s/Psychology/comments/58du/demons_are_real_psychiatric_experience_of_demons/

This isn't about whether or not somebody is "Christian" either. ;-)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for more information to read!

[–]One_Jack_Move 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

sinful

I don't see Greed as a sin, in fact it can be a virtue via capitalism - that's the point! Humanity runs on individuals perusing their separate goals, one can call that Greed for brevity.

This whole interview is gold, but here is a 2 minute, relevant clip if you are interested in my perspective: https://youtu.be/RWsx1X8PV_A

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'll check it out because I am interested in your position. It does seem like moral relativity, which I'm not that into on a cosmic or objective scale.

[–]One_Jack_Move 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Fair enough. Thanks for watching! I (believe I) understand your perspective and I do see it as a valid viewpoint which keeps my blind spots checked, gives me perspective, and clarifies my position. If you have a link or vid I would also be happy to see it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm sorry, but when it comes to morality and human experience, I tend to focus on my own reality and experience. If I told you to check out different philosophers or whatnot, I would have to carefully explain what I see as truth in their works, since I see so much BS even in the stuff I like. The only thing that I can point out is this "one can call that Greed for brevity"

You are using brevity in the sense that you are short of time, right? Not that this definition of greed is concise? That's the other meaning for that word, so I would like to know which one you meant. If it's the first one, then it works in a way. If it's the second one, then I disagree with the definition. Here is the definition: intense, selfish desire for something.

Its not actual greed to pursue individualized goals, so long as that goal coincides with the life-affirming nature of reality. It is greedy, but only from a relative standpoint. It's worthwhile to understand, which is why I am interested in talking to you. Moral relativity is great for empathizing or understanding other people and their actions, but I don't think its factual truth on a cosmic scale. At a certain point, everything becomes relative to reality and how the individual deals with it. So, greed isn't greed when it is life-affirming, it basically is just the sentiment of "I won't get in the way of my self." Which people nowadays seem to think is negative, when in reality, it can be incredibly positive for both the individual and all involved with the individual. That's not greed, that's self-improvement, therefore, societal improvement.

I just want to say that Milton Friedman is wrong. He asks "Has there ever been a society that didn't run on greed?" Yes, they existed, but why do you think you'll be able to read about them in this day and age where we have had an Information War (War on Consciousness) for generations? Do you really believe that all humans from all of time have been inherently self-serving? If you think so, then I would say stop watching youtube videos, stop reading books, stop intaking academic information and spend time with people of all classes, and you will find that there are folks who throw their lives into uplifting others for no other reason that because their self-development, and the self-development of the person they're helping, requires it. You may call it greed, but I call that good-will.

[–]One_Jack_Move 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

definition: intense, selfish desire for something

I have an intense, selfish desire to stay alive. Am I "greedy"? Not by your extrapolation on that definition. But maybe I am, if I won't sacrifice my life for a bus full of children... I'm not sure why I chose the word brevity, only that my interpretation of greed includes "individuals perusing their separate goals".

You may be skipping over Milton's condition of "great achievements". I believe there have been societies that could be called successful, small-communities and co-ops, but they accomplished very little in the way of making life generally better. I like modern medicine, and cell phones, and believe it is important to make advances and discoveries that can benefit all. Maybe I'm brainwashed that this is a requirement for a great society? But it feels very crucial to me.

Do you really believe that all humans from all of time have been inherently self-serving?

Maybe not all humans. But by and large the vast majority of them, yes. And even when at their surface some may not seem so, deep down they are - at least in some facets. Most people have within them BOTH good-will and selfishness.

you will find that there are folks who throw their lives into uplifting others

Yes, and they are wonderful and admirable! Perhaps, helping others brings them more joy than helping themselves. In which case, I'd say those desires are non-selfish and therefore not greedy. Is that your point? Is there a system that props these people up to be an example for all? In this system, who judges their actions?

Thanks for a nice discussion.

[–]Druullus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What is capitalism?