"Capitalism Rewards Efficiency"

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[–]EndlessSunflowers[S] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (30 children)

meanwhile my friend just has a pear tree in his yard (and a peach tree too)

[–]Nemesis 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

your friend isn't shipping them across the world at an industrial scale in a form that must be non-perishable. If your friend lives in rural Argentina, he might find it easier to sell them to someone else to handle distribution, instead of building a packaging factory him or herself.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (27 children)

They are saying that people should be growing and building things locally, then shipping it out if they want. Rather than what we have now, where we have a massive lattice work of deals and contracts, oftentimes creating situations of monetary imbalance in the poorer countries and a lack of practical knowledge in the heavily consumerist countries.

[–]Nemesis 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

I'm saying it's a ridiculous comparison, because his friend can't produce preserved fruit in a disposable container at this price point(edit: price estimate <$.50 per pack) locally. These "deals and contracts" are the foundations of the international economy, and on the contrary provide tremendous opportunities for developing nations to develop. Sure you can preserve your own peaches as a hobby, but it will never realistically replace the pictured product due not only to $ and expertise, but most importantly to the average American, time. We outsource food preparation to free up time to run a modern economy. If it wasn't a fair trade, my money for spending less time preparing peaches, canning equipment, etc. then I wouldn't make the trade. That's precisely why free markets are so effective, and why they've created unprecedented wealth and heightened quality of life on every continent.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

You are dickhard over a system that will either 1: destroy the planet, or 2: be replaced by something less industrial. You are fighting a losing battle.

[–]Nemesis 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

First, I'm not advocating for industry, just a free market (voluntary exchange of goods/services for capital). I hope for an eventual future when advanced technology will remove the need for heavy industry, though who knows if that will ever come to pass.
Second, if the planet is destroyed, it won't be because the free market demands it. Look around, big business is already realizing the environment sells - it's great marketing, and people will pay more for green, low impact products. Pollution was rampant throughout China and the Soviet throughout their dalliance with communism. I think the issue could be more aptly attributed to human decision making rather than any specific ideology. People will choose short term rewards over long term benefits in a low information environment. Why develop ecotourism for a trickle of revenue over the years when you can buzz it down now and sell it to a furniture company? The decision still happens in every system, because every system involves humans pursuing value. In the USSR it was mid level officials cutting deals to clear a percentage off the transaction, or get a promotion off the local economic boost in their quarterly reports. In your "scientific, naturalist clan-based democratic monarchy" you would run into the same problem, as long as your Redditor philosopher kings are still human.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Faux-environment sells. The green movement is mostly a fraud. I agree that the base problem is individual choice, but I still have major qualms with ideologies which are destructive to non-human life (and poor humans). The thing that you don't seem to understand about the clan-based democratic monarchy is that for something that evolutionary to occur, mankind would have to advance in his spiritual understanding. It could never come about if we weren't ready to properly handle power and responsibility. Why do you think we turned away from it in the past? Because we weren't ready, we had to fall down the political rabbit hole to industrialism and capital>human , much like the philosopher must fall down the hole to find nihilism. The thing is, it will occur again because it is right. Free-markets can exist in this society, and if you really think America is a free-market, then you don't know shit. The American people have no power, it's all a bunch of manufactured consent, and has been for ages now. I hate all modern and medieval political systems. They bring forth good administrative ideas, but not much else.

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A bunch of neocons and 5th column ZioCons orchestrated 9/11 and instead of being thrown in jail cells for life or expelled from the country they now teach our children ethics at Yale or get cushy jobs in government.

Knowing that, one can then plainly see how screwed up the US is.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. Not even that, but our Founding Fathers were slave owners and talked about liberty and freedom, as they conquered lands from others. Its just a bunch of disassociation with the evil shit, and association with the "good". It's a glass house, really nice in some regards, really fucking weak in others.

[–]LockeDemosthenes 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Now i see why you're way too cowardly to respond to all of the hard points levelled against your thin understanding of the world. You're so dense we're all at risk of being crushed under the gravity. You spew self contradictions and constantly ignore what is presented to you. Won't be surprised to find your account deleted when you get a little older and experience some life.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't delete accounts.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Who are you? Nemesis? All you've done LOCKE is spew fallacies. It shows where your loyalties lie.

[–]LockeDemosthenes 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Huh?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was discussing the same topic with him on another thread, and he was getting upset. He just wants to jump in with nothing substantial to say. I appreciate you, Jesus.

[–]Jesus 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I'm saying it's a ridiculous comparison, because his friend can't produce preserved fruit in a disposable container at this price point(edit: price estimate <$.50 per pack) locally.

And why is that? Is that partially because all dollars are interest bearing loans?

We outsource food preparation to free up time to run a modern economy.

Well, we shouldn't, and we should focus on sustainability and using AI and technology to do things locally. But instead we have mcDonalds and Burger King and big corporations. Modernity is a cancer when proft becomes its motive.

[–]Nemesis 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Do you plan on producing AI and technology locally? This is precisely why we outsource tasks like food preparation, home building, furniture building, so we can divert time to specialized training (the years invested in a phd, research, etc) and resulting years working full time on the job. We have mcdonalds and Burger King because people buy mcdonalds and Burger King. it pumps your brain full of dopamine, its cheap, quick and predictable. I don't eat them, but many people do. We don't have fast food at the expense of AI, I would argue we may have AI someday precisely BECAUSE we have innovations like fast food that free up our best and brightest minds to pursue their full potential. Modernity is cancer, but not because people pursue profit. People have ALWAYS pursued profit. Please point to an actual historical period where people did not pursue their self-interest. It's intrinsically human to want something better and takes steps to achieve it, regardless the society, currency, etc.

As for the first part of your response, I think you misunderstood my post. The currency I listed isn't important - I used dollars because this website is majority American. You could convert 50 cents to gold dust, silver, bitcoin, whatever you prefer, the argument stands. The point is that economies of scale produces goods like this plastic tin of peaches CHEAP, much cheaper than he ever could in his backyard, because he isn't processing 100,000 peaches at a time and distributing through Walmart. That's why things are so cheap at the store, it's because things are cheaper when you do them in bulk. It literally has nothing to do with dollars being "interest bearing loans".

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

AI and technology.

It literally has nothing to do with dollars being "interest bearing loans".

It has everything to do with it.

This is a specialized profession and the government, if it wasn't subsidizing profit-driven corporations to slowly poison the population and actually cared about their citizens (which they don't; because the US government should be a body corporate of "We the People," which it is not), would look to the future and not only subsidize these projects but provide incentives to local municipalities (corporations) to create the needed infrastructure. But since the US Government (Federal corporation: UNTED STATES INC., & c. is merely concerned with profit, the infrastructure needed for swift distribution and the rights of the laborers has been obstructed in place of a profit driven incentive that cuts all corners and looks in the opposite direction, not to an easily foreseeable future, for we have the supplies and materials but to a supply and demand that relies on the flow of interest bearing loans. Every state corporation and most country corporations, such as the US are in tremendous amounts of debt due to issuing interest bearing loans from a Judaica owned central bank (Warburg, Seligman, Lowb, Schiff, Lehman, etc.). They then use the taxpayer as collateral for the interest accrued or expropriate/mortgage it unto unborn generations, such as your children or children's children to service this idiotic debt. The tax payer then has to bailout these corporate welfare banks when boom and bust cycles occur which are inherently built into this banking system. These boom and bust cycles (mostly inflationary cycles caused by credit [debt]), gunk up distribution and severely hurt the laborers welfare. Wealth = labor; Wealth = doing good unto others; Wealth does not equal money and how much you have, period.

When these supply and demand distortions happen due to parasites in power that enforce the dreaded "Sacrifice Quota" to raise prices, all during an economic collapse, all whilst more people are starving and poor, all whilst they continue to payback accrued interest and bailout the banks.

Very backwards.

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Please point to an actual historical period where people did not pursue their self-interest. It's intrinsically human to want something better and takes steps to achieve it, regardless the society, currency, etc.

You are confusing profit motive for something better or more money = wealth, which it does not. Christians were originally anti-Usury. Our current system is based on Usury.

You could convert 50 cents to gold dust, silver, bitcoin, whatever you prefer, the argument stands. The point is that economies of scale produces goods like this plastic tin of peaches CHEAP, much cheaper than he ever could in his backyard, because he isn't processing 100,000 peaches at a time and distributing through Walmart.

That's because price is a metaphysical reality. If we created an economy around welfare of the laborer and the fruits s/he produces rather than destroy him, then all would be good. Again, the sacrafice quota illustrates the barbarity in all of this.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Do you have any ready links available for information concerning this "sacrifice quota" you have mentioned? I've never heard of this before

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://samisdat.info/blog/the-modern-idolatry

http://samisdat.info/books/the-modern-idolatry-1934/1934%20-The%20Modern%20Idolatry%20-%20Jeffrey%20Mark.pdf

The actual book is free on Archive.org. It is a decent read and talks about the sacrifice quota often.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, seriously. This is a much better use our technology and resources.

[–]Intuit 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

What's wrong with monetary "imbalance"? Why should everything be balanced?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I have no qualms with there being rich people. I have a major fucking problem with there being uber-rich people. I've met rich people. Their worst sin is being a materialist socialite. I've also met plenty of uber-rich people, and their sins are too many to count. I know "middle-class" people (this just means a few months or maybe a year of savings before being lower-class) and I know plenty of lower-class people. The vast majority of peoples problems have little to do with cash, but rather with their personal development. The problem is that the only way non-rich people will have the time to develop and mature is if they shirk monetary responsibility in some regard. What I'm saying is, the monetary system we have right does nothing but create immature malcontents and materialistic players. I'm not saying everyone be made a millionaire. I AM saying that things need to be properly managed and balanced out so that our values aren't capital>human, which is how it is in pretty much EVERY modern society. Tell me why thats good? Or are you gonna try and convince me this isn't the case?

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"If your mind is money, their mind is on you."

"If it's not on money, then please just stop living." Said all the posh uber rich billionaires.

[–]Intuit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Are uber-rich people like that because of being uber-rich, or are they uber-rich because something else is rewarding them for being corrupt people? (e.g. governments and other coercive forces)

What I'm saying is, the monetary system we have right does nothing but create immature malcontents and materialistic players.

I don't see it as the monetary system, but the corrupt, violent forces that overburden people. There are endless ways the state intrudes on people's lives and extracts their wealth, only to destroy it or use it to make people's lives worse.

Take a browse of mises.org. They have lots of pieces that might point you to the ills of the state.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would say most are uber-rich because they are willing to be horrid to other humans. A small amount of them seem to have changed once they acquired their funds. I will check out that website, thank you for pointing me towards more information!

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Exactly, even if a peach grower in say Maine grew thousands upon thousands of peaches, he still would be poor and might barely make a living.

Distributing your local peaches to a supermarket costs the supremarket MORE MONEY as well as you too; for they can get peaches for cheaper in a country thousands of miles away.

Something is gutting local industry and farms!!! But who and how?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's almost like the system is efficient for the few rather than the many.

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly, and they say, screw everyone else. But interestingly, all the small farms or even locally large ones cannot sustain their financies and are closing down in mass or are subservient to debt collectors. This is a problem of antiquity. This isn't a new problem. Neoliberals and internationalist corporatists sacrifice local industry for corporate conglomerates. Even though, on a local, decentralized scale, local gorwing would be far more convenient and spur the local economy.

But yeah, we should just grow up and accept the world because we are dumb. /s