DiscussionPronouns are a red-herring

submitted by JulienMayfair from self.LGBDropTheT

NPR today had a show about [surprise, surprise] trans youth, and they were talking about a FTM kid named "Finn" and Finn telling teachers and classmates that she was now going to use male pronouns. The interviewer emphasized how important pronouns were and stated that if people get her pronouns wrong, "it makes him feel physically ill."

I just thought, "Pronouns make you feel physically ill. Huh. How about we interrogate that statement?" It's no huge insight on my part, but it just brought into sharp focus that pronouns are not the real issue here. The issue is that these people are claiming the absolute need to be insulated from other people's objective perceptions of them because if other people don't perceive them the way the want to be perceived, it makes them "physically ill."

That's what I would call a serious mental health problem, and the implicit conclusion that people who think like this NPR reporter have reached is that nothing can be done about it, so we must protect them from what anyone who sees them knows. We all have to pretend. In what other circumstances would such a demand be made?

So when people start arguing about pronouns, keep in mind that it's never really about pronouns. It's about the fact that you're being told to deny the evidence of your senses.

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[–]Femaleisnthateful 18 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

a FTM kid named "Finn"

Aren't they all?

if people get her pronouns wrong, "it makes him feel physically ill."

This is how I, having body dysmorphia, used to react to pictures of myself. The difference is that I had the self-awareness to recognize that this was a 'me' problem, and not impose my issues on others.

Did this girl feel 'physically ill' about pronouns since early childhood? If not, then that's an obvious indicator that she wasn't 'born this way' and that something else is driving this reaction.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

a FTM kid named "Finn"

Aren't they all?

Too right! They almost invariably christen themselves with precisely the kinds of male names that appeal to... women (and girls). This is what us female people tend to name our fictional characters, and our sons. Masculine but with at least a touch of fashionable androgyny, and in keeping with recent style-trends. Hardly ever you'll-never-hear-of-a-girl-getting-named-this ones like Richard, Gary, or Doug (unless they're so old-timey as to seem quaint, a la Oscar). "Transman" names are so redolent of a feminine sensibility that I have to laugh. Way to make yourself sound GIRLY, "bro"! :)

[–]bopomofodojo 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes. These people are full-on delusional and require constant validation of others. The pronoun thing is just a perfect example. No sane person ever considers demanding how others refer to them when they're not around - what pronouns are for - because they have a healthy acceptance that they are not the center of the universe.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is what trans mental health care should focus on to me. Working on having stronger self-esteem and confidence. You shouldn’t rely on the outside validation. As FtM you should feel absolutely confident you are a man regardless of how people gender you. The only distress would come from your appearance not matching your sex. Not from people just using their fucking eyes.

[–]bopomofodojo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, I'd go a step further and say that the mental health focus should be on accepting that you are you, and that categories like "man" and "woman" are biologically derived, not derived from stereotypes or mythical "feelings of gender", and that one can't change sex or gender any more than a human can change into a chimpanzee. But, meeting half way, yes, I'd take even this quantum of sanity over what happens on Twitter, etc.

[–]JoeyJoeJoe 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Graham Linehan & Co brought the phrase "Pronouns are rohipnol" to my attention & it's a useful way to think about it.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You might need to explain how pronouns are a date rape drug.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

True. Most of people don't truly care about pronouns. So called "cis" people don't break down if someone misgenders them. It's usually interpreted as someone having shit eyes. I always found obsession with pronouns unhealthy. Why are we indulging this obsession? People with obsessions and compulsions also feel physically sick with their obsessions.