Targeting / HarassmentTranswoman on AL has a meltdown over text with woman he hooked up with the night prior after the woman told him she’s not interested.

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[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

If we are to assume the woman in this scenario is either a lesbian or bisexual, it kinda seems like she needed a little more self-knowledge before she ended up in bed with an MTF. If this were a post on r/AITA I'd have to vote ESH: Everyone sucks here. The person least likely to take it well if you dabble and then decide "nupe" is going to be an MTF. Duh. They're fragile practically be definition.

Experimenting on other people is icky. (Speaking from experience, but for me it was straight women doing the dabbling.) If there was going to be ambiguity here about perceptions of what was going on, it should have been discussed up front so that one or the other of them could have opted out beforehand.

If we don't want trans people doing it to us, we can't be doing it to them either, in other words.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I agree with you but the woman here did know the other person was a transwoman/trans woman (because apparently there is a very big difference...) but I suspect she didn't think it would be a very real functioning penis.

With all the lies of GRS results in a REAL vagina/dick or the weird as fuck 'soft, flacid uwu girldick'/very masculine 'fronthole', I could somewhat understand eh... confusion? I don't know. Most of us have read the horrifying stories of young lesbians girls feeling guilty of not wanting to be near their 'GF's 'girldick'. It boggles my mind some put themselves through that but I also grew up in a very different time. I'm not that ancient but goddamn, I feel like it.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Could be.

Either way these two did not communicate effectively with one another beforehand. I would agree that there is a risk that she might have felt pressured (we don't know), but she's so offhand about her findings that this seems like a less likely scenario.

If she WAS pressured that changes what went down here substantially. But given what we have available to go on, he just comes off sounding like a buffoon, and she comes off sounding indifferent to his personhood. Having watched many an exploitative person select a soft target (pun not intended), my money is on her being the more toxic one in this instance.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I tend to disagree as I view them both as toxic and idiots. I don't understand the woman starting with the whole 'it was a great night!' shtick to immediately switch to 'yeah, no more'. That's one weird game to play and rather stupid if you want to go for the 'soft let down' to avoid arguing.

However, I have a hard time to see the transperson as less toxic: he keeps poking, no answer is good enough, he keeps referring to 'real lesbian sex' with his dick, throws the usual transphobia agrument in it and so on. What does he try to accomplish?

Don't get me wrong: the girl played a very stupid game, doesn't seem very nice, and indeed indifferent. He, however, keeps on nagging and whining because he is such a true and honest woman. From my perspective, the guilt tripping is just as toxic as I have had the unpleasant experience of dudes trying to guilt trip me into bed, in some cases including crying, after saying 'sorry, I don't see this work'. I am quite biased, I agree.

Thing is: girl doesn't want to do this anymore. The way she states it is perhaps cold and harsh, but no is rightfully no. He has every right to be sad and disappointed about the outcome, but the whole 'you don't see me as a woman' is absolutely pointless.

The girl is weird in her rejection. Just say you don't see it work/you don't feel the spark and leave it at that. Easier, no lies, no arguments, no cruel bashing, and everybody can usually move on rather nicely.

If anything, it is very good these two stop dating. That would become one hell of a shitshow.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't understand the woman starting with the whole 'it was a great night!' shtick to immediately switch to 'yeah, no more'.

Me:

she comes off sounding indifferent to his personhood

That's shorthand for a much longer description which I've applied in a few comments on this post. To be indifferent to someone's personhood you have to be toxic AF. So we agree they are both toxic idiots. She just gets to have more intel about his likely vulnerabilities than vice versa and his are more self-inflicted and more profound.

However, I have a hard time to see the transperson as less toxic: he keeps poking, no answer is good enough, he keeps referring to 'real lesbian sex' with his dick, throws the usual transphobia agrument in it and so on. What does he try to accomplish?

Well yes, but neither she nor we are buying it, which is why we can argue that she's got the advantage. She sounds like she's phoning it in with her responses to his attempts to redirect her desires and beliefs. I would argue that she's clearly putting up a front by choice, in other words. He is, too, but his underpins his sense of self. Hers is about getting him to go away.

He has existential problems with this whole interaction which she doesn't have.

Thing is: girl doesn't want to do this anymore. The way she states it is perhaps cold and harsh, but no is rightfully no. He has every right to be sad and disappointed about the outcome, but the whole 'you don't see me as a woman' is absolutely pointless.

Not to him. It has everything to do with who he thinks he is. Is it stupid to argue with "no"? Of course. But she makes excuses which don't match up with why she got into this situation in the first place. So he's questioning it just like we are, but he's doing it through the "I'm a woman" delusional lens.

What I'm talking about here is the extent to which he believes what comes out of his mouth, vs. the extent she believes what comes out of hers. Her affect is flat as a pancake, here; it has DGAF written all over it. She clearly has very little riding on this situation. He has everything riding on it in the sense of wanting to know if his delusion was a shared one or not; his identity is a house of cards. Shoring that up is a constant enterprise.

And that's the neediness and insecurity coming out. Yes, he's going to harangue and whine. He's trying to sell a delusion. Gotta knock on that closed door a couple more times before "no" is going to be heard.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm sorry but I'm going to agree to disagree. I don't think he is that unaware about who or what he really is.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Also, I would like to apologise if I sound more harsh then intended. This was one hell of a week and I'm currently sitting in a polyester bridesmaid dress during a heatwave. Brain is not fuctioning properly.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Remember to hydrate, including electrolytes!

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just wrote a whole wall of text that could have been summarized by your comment; whoops, lol. I agree, I think there's a very real possibility that she could have been confused. And just tried to seem nice/confident (albeit in a contradictory way) over text, as a way of saving face.

I do still think she's toxic regardless.