Sex & IntimacyTo any gay man here, would you seriously date and/or have sex with a TIF?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I'm sorry but I still find this BS. In the real world "Futa" are actually just men with tits. I get that in the fantasy art world, "Futa" are drawn with overtly female faces but that's the art world and the guys who look at that kinda stuff are doing it for the dick, the male sexual organ.

Fair point.

I cannot accept that "straight" men want to see feminized men because they don't do dick no matter how feminine the man loos. So no, I think a "GAMP" is just a straight up bisexual man who is attracted to femininity regardless of the sex. It's still bisexual at the end of the day and not even close to "straight" like these closet-cases try to spin it as.

I think some people, myself included, are reluctant to call them full on bisexual because they almost never go for men who present in a masculine way, which ends up blurring things.

Personally, I would describe them more as "pseudo-bisexuals", to be fair.

I've seen her on Grindr and she does some sort of editing that flattens her chest a bit to make it not look lie she has breasts when IRL, she does. So yeah agreed, all smoke and mirrors.

That's a gigantic red flag right there.

That's true, I forgot about that LOL Buck Angel's uterus fell out right?

Not exactly.

What happened was that their reproductive system started to wither away because of the testosterone and roid abuse, which started to kill they from within.

That's why not-FtM women who abuse steroids (yes, those exist) generally go for hysterectomies before starting: it fucks them up even worse than men who do the same.

Fun fact: most of these roid abusing women are kind of very masculine themselves, to the point of passing as male if they chose to cut their hair short and have a mastectomy. This is because they're not that different (functionally speaking of couse) than FtMs in this regard.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think some people, myself included, are reluctant to call them full on bisexual because they almost never go for men who present in a masculine way

I'm sorry but my response to that is "so?" So they don't go for masculine looking men. It doesn't matter because they are still going for a type of man, a hyper feminized man. It's still a man at the end of the day and by definition that is a homosexual attraction. Do you get what I'm saying? We feminine men are still men at the end of the day. It's not "pseudo bisexuality" and this is part of the problem. The thought process behind that is that because we feminine men are not conforming to masculinity, we aren't seen as "real men" and that's ridiculous. Women are not emotional lapdogs and shouldn't be expected to widen their definition of "woman" to include men who refuse to conform to masculinity and that attraction to men like myself is just as gay as attraction to masculine men. We are a type of man and that's just the way it is.

Entertaining this BS nonsense that these men who go for hyper-feminized men are "pseudo bisexuals" sets a really bad precedent that fuels their internalized homophobia and makes these guys continue to treat feminine men as sex objects and as a feminine man myself who had to go through that in my 20s and still going through it now, I want that to fucking stop and the only way to stop that is to stop satiating and validating the absurdity that liking hyper feminized men doesn't count as a real homosexual attraction.

What happened was that their reproductive system started to wither away because of the testosterone and roid abuse, which started to kill they from within.

Oh right. I think she had a septic shock issue when that happened too right? Sorry, it's been a minute since I watched anything with Buck Angel, the last thing I saw of her was when she interviewed with Meghan Murphy and I remember she went into long detail about her past but it's been a while so I kinda forgot some things. Though I do remember that she said that she used to get treated like absolute shit back in the 1980s as a gender nonconforming woman like how she got beat up by some men and even raped, had parts of her truck stolen whenever she was out in public, and a troubles at her university. It's pretty obvious with how she developed internalized misogyny within herself that set her down the path of self-delusion.

That's why not-FtM women who abuse steroids (yes, those exist) generally go for hysterectomies before starting: it fucks them up even worse than men who do the same

Ah I see. I work at a gym and sometiems will come across a roided out woman but never knew about the possibility that they'd get hysterectomies.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So they don't go for masculine looking men. It doesn't matter because they are still going for a type of man, a hyper feminized man. It's still a man at the end of the day and by definition that is a homosexual attraction.

There's a canyon of a difference between a feminine man and a MtF, which is mainly due to the fact the latter goes for surgery specifically designed to emulate female characteristics, while the former does not.

It's also interesting to note that GAMPs mainly go for MtFs and not feminine males, but still, I believe your main point still stands: they're both males and there's nothing "straight" about a guy going for a MtF.

But then again, I could be wrong, as I have never seen chasers go for feminine males personally, so if you could clear if this is the case, I would be very grateful.

Entertaining this BS nonsense that these men who go for hyper-feminized men are "pseudo bisexuals" sets a really bad precedent that fuels their internalized homophobia and makes these guys continue to treat feminine men as sex objects and as a feminine man myself who had to go through that in my 20s and still going through it now, I want that to fucking stop and the only way to stop that is to stop satiating and validating the absurdity that liking hyper feminized men doesn't count as a real homosexual attraction.

This is very sad to hear.

Even though we are in 2022, gay culture still is pretty much "underground" in many places, which naturally ends up attracting very unpleasant types who are allergic to any type of serious attachments.

Case in point: even today there's still many married guys who only go to gay spaces to "relieve" day-to-day strees while leaving their wives and loved ones oblivious to it.

And yes, even on liberal areas this is still the case.

These are the ones most prone to seeing us as mere sexual objects (while being very homophobic, may I add) and are people who should be avoided.

Oh right. I think she had a septic shock issue when that happened too right? Sorry, it's been a minute since I watched anything with Buck Angel, the last thing I saw of her was when she interviewed with Meghan Murphy and I remember she went into long detail about her past but it's been a while so I kinda forgot some things. Though I do remember that she said that she used to get treated like absolute shit back in the 1980s as a gender nonconforming woman like how she got beat up by some men and even raped, had parts of her truck stolen whenever she was out in public, and a troubles at her university. It's pretty obvious with how she developed internalized misogyny within herself that set her down the path of self-delusion.

I didn't know this specific aspect of Buck Angel's background, so thanks for the info.

It really puts things into perspective, all while explaining why she decided to go for the roided out "tough guy" look.

Ah I see. I work at a gym and sometimes will come across a roided out woman but never knew about the possibility that they'd get hysterectomies.

The ones who do it generally are into pro weight lifting and other similar competitive fields, all of which are know to be filled with roid abusers.

They either have the procedure or risk suffering from the side-effects of roid abuse earlier than most males who do the same, which undesirable in such high performance field. Hell, some of them are even known to have abused testosterone as well.

We only don't hear many stories about it because this is a niche thing.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There's a canyon of a difference between a feminine man and a MtF, which is mainly due to the fact the latter goes for surgery specifically designed to emulate female characteristics, while the former does not.

The only difference between an effeminate, gender nonconforming man like myself and a trans-identified man is that the trans-identified man either grew hormone "moobs", or got fake bolt-on implants and deludes himself into thinking that doing all that makes them a woman. One is living in reality, the other is living in denial. And that's the hilariously stupid thing about it. Women are not breasts and "front holes" made out of penis tissue. The scope of being a woman is not measured by whether a man wants to fuck them or not. What I'm saying is that the men who go a step further and mutilate their bodies, they aren't any more of a woman for it and are just men who had cosmetic surgery and attraction to them is still homosexual, it's still same sex. Want proof? Ask how many men woudl seriously stick their dick in a "rotpocket"? The amount is gonna be next to none and its' because they know that it's not a vagina. And the reality is that the men going for these are closet-case bisexuals who want to satiate their craving for dick (something only men can have) but lie to themselves thinking that if they get the dick from a hyper feminized man than it's still "straight" and that is the delusion.

But then again, I could be wrong, as I have never seen chasers go for feminine males personally, so if you could clear if this is the case, I would be very grateful.

Oh it'd be my (dis)pleasure to share this with you. I'm on Grindr, not as much as I used to be because I'm not trying to find hookups and I get tired of the barrage of dick pics but when I was active on there in my 20s and even when I sometimes sign in on the app now, I would get messages from guys who were saying that they were only interested in trans-identified men and even when I told them that I wasn't trans-identified, that I didn't think I was a woman they didn't care, they still wanted to meet up with me. They'd still send me dick pics. And as you've seen in my photo, I don't have any cosmetic work done on me at all. And if Grindr kept chat logs that extended at least 10 years, I would show you just how frequent I was getting these so called "trans-attracted men". And I remember when I was talking to another gender nonconforming gay man on YouTube in the comments section (he wasn't a content creator like I was) who presents in a non-masculine or "boyish"passing way, he confided in me that the experience was the same for him. Are there some bi men out there who only want to engage with men who've gotten the cosmetic work? Sure but I can say a huge number of them really couldn't care less. As long as you're a man who doesn't present in a "manly man" or even "soft boy" way (though a good many even go for that, the "soft boy/flamboyant" look, they don't care, they want the feminine man dick whether he has bolt-ons or not. This is why I can speak with such clarity on the issue, this experience spans a decade. I'm 30 going on 31 and I hopped onto Grindr when I was 18-19 and was active on there for a good while. I started presenting more overtly feminine when I was 22 and the attention only tripled (even though most men were not my type tbf). So believe me, I know what I'm talking about here lol.

Case in point: even today there's still many married guys who only go to gay spaces to "relieve" day-to-day strees while leaving their wives and loved ones oblivious to it.

These are the ones most prone to seeing us as mere sexual objects (while being very homophobic, may I add) and are people who should be avoided.

This is true but there's another layer added to that when we're talking about men like myself, the GNC men who don't try to look masculine or mannish. A lot of those men I told you about who hit me up, a lot of them were married or guys who had a GFs. It was the biggest deal breaker for me even back when I first got onto Grindr. A lot of these men were those ones who claimed to only be "trans-attracted" ("transwomen only, no men" they shout in their bios yet still go for guys like myself lol).

But I argue men like myself get it worse in this regard because there are plenty of non-feminine/Gender nonconforming men in relationships with other men be them gay or bisexual. You know the whole Masc4Masc crowd, at the gym I work at I see plenty of "normal" gay men in relationships. But guys like myself? Hardly. And it's because feminine men, mainly the ones who actively look feminine are still stigmatized in society and this stigmatization is what the (usually) bisexual men worry about and it's why they take special force in only seeing men like myself as sex objects. Even the deluded TIMs still have to deal with this even when they get the fake "moobs" and the few who do get into relationships with other men, these men will hold them to a ridiculously high standard that they wouldn't hold women to like expecting the TIM to be dolled up 22/7, anything that won't "trigger" the reality that they're actually dating another man at the end of the day. Relationships built on lies never last and that's why it's rarity for even TIM to have a long-lasting relationship and even with that, built on truth and honesty.

I didn't know this specific aspect of Buck Angel's background, so thanks for the info.

I actually used the wrong term, it wasn't "septic shock". So what happened is that she had a uterine atrophy from the testosterone that turned into sepsis which almost killed her and it's why she had to get the hysterectomy. My bad but yet she still has the nerve to say that her life was improved since she "transitioned". Is she that fucking mental? lol She almost died from it and I'm sure she's still experiencing messed up health complications that have tied her to be a life-long patient to the hospital.

We only don't hear many stories about it because this is a niche thing.

Right well I hope we do see more women talk about it with time. Thought I think the reason why it hasn't happened yet is because women interested in bodybuilding is quite rare compared to men. Like at my gym, there are only about 3 obviously roided out women who go there whereas there are like 10-12 roided out men and this is chain gym too so it's not one of those smaller ones.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Want proof? Ask how many men woudl seriously stick their dick in a "rotpocket"? The amount is gonna be next to none and its' because they know that it's not a vagina. And the reality is that the men going for these are closet-case bisexuals who want to satiate their craving for dick (something only men can have) but lie to themselves thinking that if they get the dick from a hyper feminized man than it's still "straight" and that is the delusion.

Excellent point.

I agree 100% with this: these chasers go for MtFs specifically because they provide a relatively "safe" environment for them to experiment with their sexuality, and by "safe" I mean that it provides them with deniability which they can cling into.

I've heard stories of MtFs getting really frustrated because the "straight" males which go for them are really obsessed with dicks, hilariously enough.

I would get messages from guys who were saying that they were only interested in trans-identified men and even when I told them that I wasn't trans-identified, that I didn't think I was a woman they didn't care, they still wanted to meet up with me. They'd still send me dick pics. And as you've seen in my photo, I don't have any cosmetic work done on me at all. And if Grindr kept chat logs that extended at least 10 years, I would show you just how frequent I was getting these so called "trans-attracted men".

Wow, I didn't know that was the case!

This only confirms that these men go for MtFs as a way to cope with the fact they aren't really straight.

Even the deluded TIMs still have to deal with this even when they get the fake "moobs" and the few who do get into relationships with other men, these men will hold them to a ridiculously high standard that they wouldn't hold women to like expecting the TIM to be dolled up 22/7, anything that won't "trigger" the reality that they're actually dating another man at the end of the day.

The most interesting thing to take from this is that GAMPs are not only deluding themselves, but also the MtFs they orbit around, putting lies on their profiles in order to better attract them.

Remember: most HSTS are turned off by males who also go for other males, which makes this all even more hilarious. They lie about being female while at the same time they're being lied to by chasers.

How poetic...

My bad but yet she still has the nerve to say that her life was improved since she "transitioned". Is she that fucking mental? lol She almost died from it and I'm sure she's still experiencing messed up health complications that have tied her to be a life-long patient to the hospital.

This is copium with a mixture of sunken cost falacy, you know that.

If she admits now that transitioning was a mistake, then what's left for her? She would have spent multiple years of her life sustaining a lie, and what for? Being cheated on by her wife, fetishized by creepers and multiple crippling health problems?!

And unfortunately, this is going to be the exact destiny reserved for many of these FtMs, if not worse!

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree 100% with this: these chasers go for MtFs specifically because they provide a relatively "safe" environment for them to experiment with their sexuality, and by "safe" I mean that it provides them with deniability which they can cling into. I've heard stories of MtFs getting really frustrated because the "straight" males which go for them are really obsessed with dicks, hilariously enough. Yep, it's a relationship and attraction built on delusional lies. And exactly, the fact that these men are so obsessed with dick and how that drives them to TIMs who they themselves, don't want attention on their dick most of the time is just hilarious but again, shows why at the end of the day, these "trans-attracted" men are closet-case bisexuals deep down because they know the only way to get dick is to go to men, adult human males.

The most interesting thing to take from this is that GAMPs are not only deluding themselves, but also the MtFs they orbit around, putting lies on their profiles in order to better attract them. Remember: most HSTS are turned off by males who also go for other males, which makes this all even more hilarious. They lie about being female while at the same time they're being lied to by chasers.

Exactly and that is why in the end no one is truly satisfied. No one is truly happy and things would be different if both parties accepted themselves for what they truly are. That's why I don't hold back with my views because as I explained before, these closet-case bisexuals try to push and use that nonsense on those of us gender nonconforming men who don't lie about who we are but I also acknowledge that "HSTS" are the effeminate GNC gay men who got super frustrated with how hard it was to date in the gay scene and resorted to deluding themselves into believing they are women in the hopes of being able to finally attract more men. As a fellow feminine GNC man who has struggled to find a relationship, I sympathize with these men to a point because I get the struggle, I really do. But lying about reality is not the answer to this and as they more than likely see, they still attract the same men they were more than likely attracting before. Sure they may be getting more quantity of them but it's all the same BS of closet-cases who mostly view them as sex objects so nothing really changes aside from the fact that if these HSTS TIMs are taking HRT and/or surgeries, they'll be experiencing declining health at an earlier age and I think that's unfortunate. Especially because if they actually do get a relationship, aside from it being built on delusion like I said in my previous comment, I also don't believe the closet-case bisexual will stick around with them when the health problems start to appear and worsen with time.

The only way to truly fix this is for men like us (I'm including the HSTS TIMs) is to demand better from the men who claim to be into us but on the TIM's part, they also need to live in reality as well to help invoke the change. Stop insinuating that you're anything but a man and don't play into the delusions of these closet-cases. Make them face their sexuality for what it really is by rejecting their pushes for sex, stop allowing these men to see us as sex objects and instead, real people with feelings who desire love and romance like everyone else.

So I hope you understand now why I take this issue so seriously and why I don't entertain bullshit.

If she admits now that transitioning was a mistake, then what's left for her? She would have spent multiple years of her life sustaining a lie, and what for? Being cheated on by her wife, fetishized by creepers and multiple crippling health problems?!

This is true and unfortunately for her, I see Buck Angel taking this to her grave. She's far too prideful and narcissistic to admit that she was wrong even if there's a part of her deep down that feels she did fuck up.

And unfortunately, this is going to be the exact destiny reserved for many of these FtMs, if not worse!

Which is all the more reason to speak up on this stuff and try to deter people but especially Gay and Lesbian youths from going down the same path of self destruction.