DiscussionTransgenderism is the same as Homosexuality (Argument)

submitted by Kai_Decadence from (self.LGBDropTheT)

This is an argument that I've heard and had used against me sometimes when I would be out and open about not supporting transgender ideology. I sometimes will get the "I don't understand how a gay man can be against trans ideology when people used to say that being gay was a mental illness".

I know that it's bullshit, I know that it's nonsense and I know that being homosexual is not the same as being trans-identified but I have to admit that I don't know how to properly explain this and it does trip me up. I'm just wondering how I could tackle this argument whenever it's presented to me because it does tend to pop up from time to time.

all 13 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Homosexuality doesn't require medical procedures and it doesn't require everyone else to lie about reality.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So simple yet so true and effective. Thanks!

[–]JulienMayfair 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Doctors used to say that being gay was a mental illness, and doctors still classify depression as a mental illness. Should doctors stop regarding depression as a mental illness and stop treating it because being gay was once considered e mental illness? They are apples and oranges.

Feeling like you were born in the wrong body is not the same as being sexually attracted to members of your own sex.

The mental illness aspect of homosexuality was really a transitory thing in the 20th century. The much-longer debate was a moral/ethical one concerning whether or not having sexual relations with someone of the same sex was morally or ethically wrong. That's an entirely different question from whether or not someone who is born male can become female.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hear, hear!

I think about this sort of thing a lot. Am I on "the wrong side of history" because I don't like the current transgender trend and think that it's gotten way out of hand? When I say, "I don't care how someone wants to identify as long as they don't turn it into my problem somehow," am I being the same as those who said, "I don't mind gay people, just don't shove it in my face"? Many people that are mired in the activism, as well as lots of people who only know about trans stuff through popular media, think of the trans stuff as being the next big civil rights movement. Are they right? Am I just being an out-of-touch old fogey who is resistant to societal change?

It's quite insidious the ways that we're being trained to question ourselves. Something about "trans liberation" is very different than "gay liberation," but the way things are portrayed, it's very difficult to pinpoint exactly what that something is, and if you can, you're made to feel unreasonable.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be against sweeping societal changes to cater to a very small percentage of people. Asking someone for their pronouns upon first meeting them is completely unnecessary for the vast majority of people in their everyday lives, and yet we're being told we're insensitive for not wasting brainpower and time on completely unneeded things, because there are a small handful of people in the world who are annoyed at having to deal with having "different" pronouns that they themselves chose? It sounds completely batshit, but everyone seems to go along with it.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"I don't understand how a gay man can be against trans ideology when people used to say that being gay was a mental illness"

One of the following must be true:

  • Transgenderism is a mental illness, and therefore requires intervention. Trans ideology, in particular, claims that puberty blockers and other medical interventions are the ideal treatment for this mental illness; however, there is no evidence to support this claim. A reasonable person would oppose trans ideology because these methods are ineffective and harmful. (I can provide evidence for that but that's another debate.)

  • Transgenderism is NOT a mental illness, and therefore all prescribed interventions including puberty blockers, testosterone/estrogen, and surgeries are unnecessary (cosmetic). A reasonable person would oppose trans ideology because the general public shouldn't have to pay for unnecessary surgeries.

Either way... trans ideology is harmful.

Worth mentioning, also: homosexuality and bisexuality are present in many other animal species besides humans, but gender identity is present only in humans. Gender identity was invented in 1975 by a pedophile named John Money by Robert Stoller in 1964, my bad!, but same-sex attraction has been around since the beginning of recorded human history. They are not the same at all.

I recommend asking these people: "Should a person with anorexia, who thinks they look are too fat, be encouraged to diet? If not, then why should a woman, who thinks she looks too feminine, be encouraged to remove her breasts? Why is there this double standard about different types of body dysmorphia?"

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"Should a person with anorexia, who thinks they look are too fat, be encouraged to diet? If not, then why should a woman, who thinks she looks too feminine, be encouraged to remove her breasts? Why is there this double standard about different types of body dysmorphia?"

I asked this very question in a Reddit thread once. I was told 'they're not the same' and then my account was banned.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Typical Reddit.

Funny, I remember hearing this question come up in college and I was so confused on what the difference was, because they seemed like the same thing. I gave up and moved on. Never would've thought that question would become so relevant to my life later!

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very nice points. The above examples are hilarious because no matter how you slice it, it's just ridiculous and harmful no matter how you spin it. We homosexuals don't have to change anything about ourselves that will negatively affect our harm in the long run neither.

And yeah it's absolutely insane these TRAs can be when their little ideology comes from a glorified pedophile who was clearly trying to take advantage of vulnerable young boys and both of them ended up committing suicide and yet his experiment is considered "successful"? How ? His primary "guinea pigs"' lives were ruined.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

When homosexuality was considered a mental illness, there was a dramatically different way which society treated the mentally ill. They had insane asylums where people would get basically locked up for life for the crime of not being normal enough. If a morally conservative group managed to convince the public that the deviant gays were "insane" then they could gain standing to just remove us completely from society.

Once you were inside, they could do all kinds of crazy stuff to you like performing a lobotomy.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's another good point. The way society viewed mental illness pre 1980s was a different time where anyone who wasn't normal by mainstream societal standards were to be locked away and have crazy experiments done on them.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

When homosexuality was considered a mental illness, there was a dramatically different way which society treated the mentally ill.

Oh, whoa, that's another really good point that I wouldn't have thought of.

People talk about "mental illness stigma today" but mentioning "mental illness stigma" in the 50s-70s probably would've gotten you laughed at... or people would've been like, "Uh, yeah. Duh there's a stigma, there should be."

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right and by the time GID got removed from the DSM, it wasn't at a point where you were going to get locked up.

If you check my recent post on this sub, there's an indication that GID was removed due to the influence of a few pedo fantasizing professors who's main goal was to push the boundary of allowable behavior.

Even among some transgender people, the removal of GID is a problem because it demedicalizes something which by definition requires medical intervention. Either through expensive psychological therapy or what they want, a full body transformation. It's a problem because now they want expensive medical care for something which is being defined as a non medical issue.

When gays were removed they required no additional care aside from possible therapy to deal with depression.

We didn't reject therapy and start demanding some other "thing". Now these very same people who brag about GID being removed from the DSM are also bragging about having 150 different self diagnosed mental disorders. They want everything except their mental illness to be a mental illness.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

what part of trans ideology? I have dysphoria (transmeds) or the want to queer gender & sex crowd? Because the queer types are following a beleif about gender that you personally disagree with. Even some trans people disagree, so you shouldn't have to.

Gay & Lesbian (and eventually bisexuals) were fighting for the right to exist as homosexuals, when laws were excluding us. They were legal fights.The basics of Trans rights seem to be the right to cross dress, and the right to be seen legally as the opposite sex. (or a weird pronoun) Which conflicts with women rights, which the fight for homosexuality never did.

I don't use the mental illness as an argument (right wingers use it to frequently), but it can be said that the distress of being lgb comes from getting rejected, by family friends, society, and even your God. With trans, the distress comes from their physical body, or even being a member of their sex, which is definitely something going on in their head.

Also, just because two marginalized groups have a similar history of oppression, doesn't automatically mean they will share all beliefs. No one tells church going conservative blacks they have to be on board with the rainbow because of some similarities.