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[–]hufflepuff-poet 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not a lesbian. I've left the community.

I think this is the heart of where we disagree. I don't think a lesbian can be "not a lesbian". Female homosexuals are lesbians whether we ever accept it or not. Whether we want to be part of the "lesbian community" or not. That's part of the thing about being closeted--if a lesbian stays in the closet her whole life and is married to a man, if she's only attracted to women and hates being with a man, wishes she could be with a woman or "become a man to be with a woman" or even if she never allows herself to look at her feelings and desires too closely to ever accept her homosexuality, she's a lesbian whether she ever accepts it or lives in a society where she can act on those desires or not. Lesbians for the vast majority of history have been forced to partner with men, only recently have we had the freedoms to build lesbian communities and lives out in the open. It is a privilege to accept your homosexuality, it is a privilege to be out and proud, that's why we have a responsibility to make it easier for younger lesbians to accept and embrace their homosexuality.

I think it does a disservice to the reality of being a lesbian in a patriarchal world to pretend that it's as easy as never wanting to be with a man and being able to never be with one. In a world where girls and women are bombarded with boyfriends and dicks and babies from cradle to grave, being a lesbian is hard. Surviving as a gold star is even harder.

Never once did I say lesbians enjoy sex with men or that it's normal for a lesbian to be with a man. I said it was weird of my friends to say that shit and I told them they didn't have to pander to males as a lesbian, they're bodies are not public playthings. I said it's normal for lesbians to fall prey to the pressure to be with a man, especially when they are young and naive. Female socialization is a helluva drug and it is turned up to 11 for lesbians because the biggest part of female socialization is the idea that women are first and foremost male property and we should please them, our desires be damned. Otherwise the trans bs wouldn't be having such a devestating effect on young lesbians but it is, because they want to "be kind and give him a chance and be accepting and open and accommodating to oppressed people".

Lesbian: female homosexual; a woman who only wants to be with other women. It's disingenuous to pretend that we are not targeted and harassed and erased for being lesbians and that we face no pressure to be bisexual/heterosexual. I'm only saying that many lesbians fall for the abuse and have slept with men, NOT that it is ok. But I have compassion for them because at the end of the day, they're the ones who have to live with that trauma. It was never an attack on you or gold stars, just a defense of non-gold star lesbians.

Eta: what is the point of a community if we can't have uncomfortable conversations about the reality we all have to face, even if it's shitty?? It's not right that young lesbians feel like they aren't allowed to just be lesbians or not include men in their sex lives or like their worth is tied up with including men, but it is the world we live in and it doesn't help any of us to look away from those young women and say "you're not really a lesbian. You actually should go call yourself bi and keep having sex you hate". I try to speak up and share my story so younger lesbians understand they don't have to traumatize themselves trying to fit into a box someone else made for them

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think this is the heart of where we disagree. I don't think a lesbian can be "not a lesbian". Female homosexuals are lesbians whether we ever accept it or not. Whether we want to be part of the "lesbian community" or not.

I want nothing to do with them. Too much of talk about having sex with men. Lesbian doesn't mean any of that anymore.

It was never an attack on you or gold stars, just a defense of non-gold star lesbians.

I never said you attack me, just defend lesbians being fine with having sex with men, like the initial post said. I know you defended lesbians sleeping with men. I never talked about anything you said in that post, at all. YOU brought that up, because YOU have to push having sex with men onto everything and everyone else. YOU haven't stopped talking about having sex with men to me and on my posts. I don't care that you sleep with men, but keep it to yourself, I don't want to hear it. Be around "lesbian" that have sex with men as much as you want, just leave me out of it. You're apart of the problem.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I was trying to have a civil conversation but what I'm not gonna do is put up with YOU trying to say I have sex with men or that I'm part of the problem. I do not have sex with men and I never will again because I've accepted that I'm a lesbian. I am only saying that lesbians are pressured to have sex with men and not everyone is as confident and strong as YOU are to be a gold star. Who does it help to pretend that lesbians aren't under immense pressure to be with men?? That's the root of Lesbophobia, that we are women who don't want to partner with men. I'm not gonna lie or pretend that lesbians don't have to deal with that or say that lesbians who have struggled with that aren't real lesbians, that's bullshit and it only hurts the actual lesbians struggling to accept their homosexuality. YOU are the one acting like dick is some magical thing that'll mark a woman as "not a lesbian" if she's ever interacted with one. Women are allowed to struggle with their sexuality and regret our sexual choices, realize that we aren't attracted to men and move on and accept our actual sexuality. Lesbians are allowed to say dumb shit around other lesbians on our path to accepting ourselves,I don't fault my friends for sharing their internalized homophobia. We are not marked because we've been with men in the past. I'm not saying bisexuals or febfems are lesbians, I'm saying that lesbians have a hard time fully accepting ourselves, not everyone knew they were gay at 15. Some of us have to learn things the hard way, by living and experiencing things and sorting the good from the bad, the societal bs from our actual self.

This is my last reply cus clearly we're not on the same wavelength.

Eta: yes, please do read my replies on the other post and this post! I'm not talking about the joys of having sex with men, I'm talking about how it traumatizes lesbians, why many young lesbians fall into these traumatizing situations and why we should have spaces for lesbians to talk about the reality of this! If we can't discuss the causes and effects of Lesbophobia on lesbians struggling with their sexuality, both internalized and external, in a lesbian community, what's the point of having a lesbian community?? How tf are we ever going to solve these problems and heal our community, if we ignore the reality of what's being done, to who and why?? I'm not going to play pretend that no lesbian has ever felt coerced, by an individual or society at large, to be with a man.

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just so everyone knows the post is still up, and you can see how she brought up lesbian being ok with having sex with men out of nowhere, and how she hasn't stop talking about her and her friends having sex with men to me and on my posts. The original post was about a bisexual woman said there are two types of lesbians, one being fine with being with men, I thought it was bs. Huffle defended it, then a bunch of lesbians said they sleep with men, and are fine with it.