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LifestyleI'm done

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[–]hufflepuff-poet 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I can't speak for anyone else from the other thread but I can say for myself, I didn't mean lesbians can like dick, I just mean that accepting yourself as a lesbian is hard. We live in a patriarchal world that tells girls from birth that their wants, needs and desires are secondary to a man's, that her purpose is to be a man's wife/homemaker/baby factory someday. It is hard to cancel out all that noise and tune into what your body actually wants. It was for me. I shared conversations I've had with other lesbians who were at different places of acceptance themselves, even if I didn't understand where they were coming from or how they could stomach being with a man after they "accepted" they were lesbians, I understand the world that lead to their mindset and I feel like part of being out and proud now means assuring those women that being a lesbian means they don't have to put up with dick, they are allowed to pursue their desires only and not use their body as a public service for any scrote who shows up and shows interest in her.

I don't think you're weird for never having been w a man and for knowing you were gay at a young age. I do think that you're an outlier but not because you're weird, it's because we live in such a lesbophobic hellworld, not many gurls and young women have the confidence to stand firm in their sexual orientation when everyone around them is chipping away at their boundaries. I admire that you and other gold stars do have that confidence --more young lesbians need to see gold star role models so they know they don't have to accept males into their romantic and sexual lives. It's hard to be out and proud as a teenager.

I came out at 15 too, and I couldn't handle it. The only girl I liked got a boyfriend and cut me out of her life, my family and friends gave me hell for being a lesbian and told me it was due to my trauma and that I couldn't really know if I'd never been with anyone before. I crumpled, I doubted myself and ignored my feelings and went back in the closet with the first boy that showed interest in me. Looking back, I regret not trusting myself and staying out, but I don't regret the path I went on that lead me to being out and proud as a lesbian now. That path includes sexual encounters with men, that I'm still trying to heal from, but it also includes my first kiss with a woman, falling in love with my first girlfriend and finally having sex that I wanted to be present for. I'd never regret meeting my first girlfriend or any of the women I've been with since her.

I'm sorry if my reply made you feel like lesbians were supporting the "lesbians can like dick" brigade. I understand lesbians with a history with men is a touchy subject in our community, especially rn with polilez, bi lesbians and male lesbians flooding all of our spaces. I just don't want to shut the door on women who have struggled to accept themselves and embrace their lesbianism without apology or preamble.

Eta: also I think many lesbians who are like my friends use sex with men as a punishment or self-harm. It's not normal to only have sex when you need to be blackout drunk or high or to use sex as a way to dissociate. To me, it's like the lesbians who transition as a form of self-harm, but more passive. She believes she "deserves" to be hurt because she's ashamed of herself and hates her desires.

[–][deleted]  (5 children)

[deleted]

    [–]hufflepuff-poet 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I'm not a lesbian. I've left the community.

    I think this is the heart of where we disagree. I don't think a lesbian can be "not a lesbian". Female homosexuals are lesbians whether we ever accept it or not. Whether we want to be part of the "lesbian community" or not. That's part of the thing about being closeted--if a lesbian stays in the closet her whole life and is married to a man, if she's only attracted to women and hates being with a man, wishes she could be with a woman or "become a man to be with a woman" or even if she never allows herself to look at her feelings and desires too closely to ever accept her homosexuality, she's a lesbian whether she ever accepts it or lives in a society where she can act on those desires or not. Lesbians for the vast majority of history have been forced to partner with men, only recently have we had the freedoms to build lesbian communities and lives out in the open. It is a privilege to accept your homosexuality, it is a privilege to be out and proud, that's why we have a responsibility to make it easier for younger lesbians to accept and embrace their homosexuality.

    I think it does a disservice to the reality of being a lesbian in a patriarchal world to pretend that it's as easy as never wanting to be with a man and being able to never be with one. In a world where girls and women are bombarded with boyfriends and dicks and babies from cradle to grave, being a lesbian is hard. Surviving as a gold star is even harder.

    Never once did I say lesbians enjoy sex with men or that it's normal for a lesbian to be with a man. I said it was weird of my friends to say that shit and I told them they didn't have to pander to males as a lesbian, they're bodies are not public playthings. I said it's normal for lesbians to fall prey to the pressure to be with a man, especially when they are young and naive. Female socialization is a helluva drug and it is turned up to 11 for lesbians because the biggest part of female socialization is the idea that women are first and foremost male property and we should please them, our desires be damned. Otherwise the trans bs wouldn't be having such a devestating effect on young lesbians but it is, because they want to "be kind and give him a chance and be accepting and open and accommodating to oppressed people".

    Lesbian: female homosexual; a woman who only wants to be with other women. It's disingenuous to pretend that we are not targeted and harassed and erased for being lesbians and that we face no pressure to be bisexual/heterosexual. I'm only saying that many lesbians fall for the abuse and have slept with men, NOT that it is ok. But I have compassion for them because at the end of the day, they're the ones who have to live with that trauma. It was never an attack on you or gold stars, just a defense of non-gold star lesbians.

    Eta: what is the point of a community if we can't have uncomfortable conversations about the reality we all have to face, even if it's shitty?? It's not right that young lesbians feel like they aren't allowed to just be lesbians or not include men in their sex lives or like their worth is tied up with including men, but it is the world we live in and it doesn't help any of us to look away from those young women and say "you're not really a lesbian. You actually should go call yourself bi and keep having sex you hate". I try to speak up and share my story so younger lesbians understand they don't have to traumatize themselves trying to fit into a box someone else made for them