METACommunity input requested! User flair updates

submitted by [deleted] from self.LGBDropTheT

Greetings friends!

We once again interrupt your regularly scheduled "Why Do You Want To Drop The T?" thread, this time to gather community input on possible flair changes.

A user recently requested that we update our flair for gay men. All of our flairs were approved by our community way back when the sub was in its early days on Reddit, but there were far less of you then, so we wanted to bring the vote back to you for a potential update.

Here's a few that have been called into question (currently and/or in the past):

  • Rainbow flag: we're using the simplified 6-striped flag. We could update to Baker's original 8-striped flag to show historical significance, or we could add it as a second alternative. Not sure at this time how clearly the colors will display since flairs are pretty small.

  • Gay men blue-striped flag: as far as we can tell, this originated on Tumblr. We've gone with the blue/green version, but since then, it's been updated to blue/green/purple, which includes gender identity and can muddy the waters.

  • Bisexual symbol: we're using a combined male/female symbol, which has also been co-opted on the gender side of things to represent bi-gender, creating confusion at times. We could add the Infinity symbol, and/or differentiate between male and female.

Please feel free to add more insight to our current flairs, and/or suggestions for changes or new ones! We don't want to overwhelm people with options like r/LGBT, but we're fine adding a few more for variety or if things are feeling a little stagnant.

Also ...

Sometimes we've tossed around the idea of adding "ally" flairs. This has overwhelmingly been voted AGAINST, but we're open to discussing it again, since we're potentially revamping anyway. Suggestions have been or could be: Hetero, SuperStraight (and other Supers), Trans

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[–]CleverFoolOfEarth 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

The female bisexual symbol posted here is a bit odd, looks more like a symbol for "shitty anime love triangle", lol. I'd be all for flairing up, though, if it matched the male bisexual symbol, though!

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

LOL you're right. I just quickly Googled something that would make sense and threw it up on Imgur, that's not a final image by any means.

So maybe instead of female-male-female, it's female-female-male?

[–]CleverFoolOfEarth 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

LOL you're completely right. I can't unsee it.

[–]motss-pb 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Regarding the blue and pink flags for gay men and lesbians, I'm of the mind that we should unequivocally reject these flags and remove them altogether. Honestly, they belong in the same category as the progress pride flag. We really need to be more aware of how every aspect of gay culture has been modified within the past few years to align with gender ideology. It's not just the corruption of our history and the language we use to describe ourselves. It applies to our symbols as well.

When people start telling you that gay men and lesbians are now represented by blue and pink gender-coded flags that originated on tumblr, that didn’t exist ten years ago, and that have no historical significance, you should be skeptical. Is it coincidence that both these flags have a white stripe in the middle just like the trans flag? No it is not. Please ditch these flags.

[–]lunarstrain 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Completely agree. I know some of the real lesbians in my generation like and/or choose the redesigned lipstick flags but I can't stand them. To me they represent the acknowledgement of TQ-flavored tumblr identity politics on a larger scale. I remember being shocked at the time how quickly the "new" lesbian flag took off and was now available in a bunch of stores on various things.

[–]ElectraHeart 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is why I raised this issue to the mods. It was really weird for me to come the original drop the t and start seeing the toothpaste flag, got tumblr flashbacks. And funnilly even the toothpaste flag is not enough for the gender cult.

I remember being shocked at the time how quickly the "new" lesbian flag took off and was now available in a bunch of stores on various things.

I know lesbians do not like the gay flag being for gay men, but thats also how I felt when Baker's flag got replaced by toothpaste flag. It felt like we did not matter anymore, in our own movement.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Regarding the blue and pink flags for gay men and lesbians, I'm of the mind that we should unequivocally reject these flags and remove them altogether.

Lol, I misread that at first and thought you were advocating for removing all flags. Was like Bruh, you're using one hahaha.

It's an interesting argument; I kinda see your point. I wish there was just a "same sex attracted" flag. Like a flag that was very clearly meant to delineate ALL LGB people and ONLY LGB people. Is that the rainbow flag? Maybe it's the TRA brainwashing affecting me, but when I see the rainbow flag I don't really interpret it that way.

If there were some clear way to signal LGB-only and LGB-all solidarity specifically, I would be interested in using that.

edit: What's your opinion on symbols, like double venus and double mars? (Unsure if bisexuals have one, see top comment.)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just went through all our flaired users, and we currently have 9 active users who use either the blue or pink striped flags. I'm hoping we'll hear their input on this as well.

I'm considering "active" if they've posted or commented in the past 3 months - there's plenty of abandoned accounts or sleeper alts too, but I'm not concerned about their opinions since they're really a part of.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like both the current invader-free rainbow flag and Baker's original. That's my flag as a gay man. No need for that Tumblr invention but each to their own.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

That combined male/female symbol means bisexual? I thought that meant transgender ally. I think you should use the infinity symbol instead because it's least confusing. I wouldn't mind ally flairs, though, since I thought we already had them, but not superstraight.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The combined male/female symbol is all over the place, it's been co-opted for many different usages over the years.

What kind of ally flairs would you be interested in or OK with? Or which ones (besides SuperStraight) would you not be OK with?

This post will stay up for a few weeks to make sure it gets visibility, and those users who aren't online every day get a chance to see and participate. So no rush to immediately answer :)

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Perhaps we could use this heterosexual symbol (https://stock.adobe.com/ca/images/united-heterosexual-symbols-icon-vector-icon-simple-element-illustration-united-heterosexual-symbols-symbol-design-can-be-used-for-web-and-mobile/211967032)?

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This seems to be a very common conflation. Which is why I don't like that bi symbol. It also suggests a hybridization of sex attraction like the trans symbol suggests a hybridization of sex characteristics. Neither which is true.

Actually, none of the bi symbols are particularly good, I guess. The others have their own problems with the implication of intrinsic or obligate polyamory with the symbolized threesomes :p

As for allies, I think a simple "Ally" flair would suffice. I also figured we had something like that already for some reason...

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Maybe we need an entirely new bisexual symbol. I agree we could probably do better.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Working on it.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have no preference at all for/against any of the existing flags or symbols. I don't use them online or in my personal life, and defer to those of you who do.

I'm on the fence about ally flairs, but leaning towards "no". I want to show appreciation for our allies, but I also think this sub is about LGB and our wants/needs/concerns (etc). Small diversions and things can add up to a much bigger sum, so for me, that means allies shouldn't get special representation - they can use text or copy small emojis into the text field if they want to differentiate themselves.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'd love adding the 8-striped flair, it's my personal favorite flag!!

I'm leaning towards no on ally flairs, adding non same-sex attracted folks to our movement and spaces is what got us in this mess. Though I'd be ok w a super-straight one since that feels like a solidarity thing and not just labelling them as "allies" to be special/part of the club and it's nice to know if a poster's an actual LGB person or not.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

For the rainbow, would you want to add the 8-striped flag, or replace the 6-stripe with the 8-stripe?

If SuperStraight were to be added, do you think it should be the flag, or do it somewhat differently, like maybe a row of hearts with their colors?

As an aside, wanted to share with everyone ... I found a SuperStraight flag on Amazon, and thought this review w/ photo was funny: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R1BQRJP5HD4RTD/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0931VCXJZ

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the 8 striped one is the old one right? I'd like it added.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Add the 8-striped flag and keep the original 6-striped one too!

I like the idea of a row of hearts in the super-straight colors.

LOL, the Kim Jong Un flag made me chuckle!

[–]RippoffOfLoveSStraight | Overuses quotation marks 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I understand why the ally flairs have been rejected, but hear me out. It could potentially make it easier to identify when someone commenting is decidedly not who this subreddit is for. For me personally, it's less about me parading my iDenTitY (read: orientation) around and more about disclosing what my lived experience is. I think the SuperStraight flag is a good candidate for this, but I don't have very strong feelings one way or another.

[–]ElectraHeart 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Bisexual symbol: we're using a combined male/female symbol, which has also been co-opted on the gender side of things to represent bi-gender, creating confusion at times. We could add the Infinity symbol, and/or differentiate between male and female.

I couldn't find it, but an old pride photo had a clever bisexual symbol so the male and female symbols but it was like chains and went like this: 'M MF F' representing all the bisexual combinations.

Sometimes we've tossed around the idea of adding "ally" flairs. This has overwhelmingly been voted AGAINST, but we're open to discussing it again, since we're potentially revamping anyway.

'Ally' culture ruined the mainstream 'lgbt' culture, no need to reinvent the wheel.

SuperStraight

This term is the epitome of heterosexual narcissism for me. For the 'super'gays, all i can say is that we're the original gays, and we should not cede ground to the gender cult by defining ourselves out of our identities. Being a 'supergay' is a tautology on its own since there are no gays that are not attracted to men.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you manage to find that bisexual symbol/photo, please do share!

Was it maybe something like this? https://imgur.com/a/JVShnzG

But with double-male on one side and double-female on the other?

[–]ElectraHeart 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://i.imgur.com/Mo7RWWn.png

Since i don't want to dumpster dive into my 10k tumblr likes, It was like this, but they were linked like a chain, so something like:

f m f f m m

TBH, the male and female ones can be separate on their own, its up to the bi people here.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I couldn't find it, but an old pride photo had a clever bisexual symbol so the male and female symbols but it was like chains and went like this: 'M MF F' representing all the bisexual combinations.

Is this this similar to what you are thinking of? source edit: u/TumbleweedFireflies

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I don't have strong opinions regarding the two rainbow flags. I don't know enough about the background of each to have a preference.

Also, not a gay guy but I've seen several gay male users comment negatively on the gay men's blue-striped flag, FWIW. Could probably dig up their comments/threads about it if you want. Then again, I've seen some people use it too.

This may sound a little strange, but I've put off choosing a flag or a flair because for some reason the idea of doing so makes me uncomfortable. I like seeing other people's flags/flairs, it's almost like a way of having LGB visibility even on an anonymous forum, so it makes no sense. I think that discomfort might come from a place of internalized homophobia... I feel silly feeling bothered over something so trivial. But with that in mind, I'm probably not the best person to give suggestions on this topic, lol.

edit: I think a SuperStraight one might be fun. Maybe not on the s/LGB sub, but I feel like it's relevant enough for this sub because this sub is not just an LGB community but is also the home for a movement, and is necessarily political.

There are some cool-looking SuperGay, SuperLesbian and SuperBi flags that I saved a while back, too, if anyone's interested!

edit2: Here's some amusing possibilities:

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I rather like Baker's original rainbow flag.

As for the bisexual options, if the infinity symbol, which I like aesthetically, hasn't been co-opted yet by the "we'll F anything" crowd, it seems like that'd be one of the next to get ruined. Given that we are the sub we are, though, I don't think that anyone is going to misinterpret the combined male/female symbol. (I don't think that was even an option when I migrated with y'all over here. So I might start using it.)

I think if we overcomplicate expressing bisexuality we risk turning those expressions into the overcomplicated nonsense we oppose. We don't need to get elaborate, we are the OGs and the real thing. I'm good with the existing options.

ETA: Unless we come up with a new one of our own that somehow can't be co-opted but I'm not sure how that will be accomplished.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Back in the day, a.k.a. the '90s / '00s, what I typically saw used to distinguish L and G were the black and pink inverted triangles, respectively.

What about reviving those? I'm not sure why they disappeared from use, but I haven't seen either in a long time.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

u/TumbleweedFireflies

Just tagging you, since I replied late, to consider giving this idea a little more attention since it doesn't seem to have been noticed yet.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw, thank you! Just watching and gathering people's feedback for the time being :)

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Separate flair request: WTF

I wanted to use that this week for the Blaire White video about disorder fakers.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This thread is for user flair specifically, we're not looking to add more post flair right now. Keep it in your pocket though, I'm sure we'll ask about posts again!

The Blaire White video just BARELY scraped by as acceptable. HSTS speaking? Alright, maybe up our alley. Speaking about non-LGB? Not so much.

It was loosely tied together because we all know fakers are a part of why we want to drop the T, and it was an HSTS saying it. But for anyone new to what we're going for here, Blaire's video doesn't really demonstrate our cause.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, you did say user flair, sorry. I'm exhausted.

[–]NoaRaccoon 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like the lesbian flag, and also, the beautiful, classic gay Pride flag. You know, from when we were all happy, and none of this fighting had started.. And also: It's NOT the progress flag, that is all I need.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

u/Bright_painting
u/NoMoreMadness
u/NoaRaccoon

(commenting this multiple times - mentioning too many users at once makes it so no one gets the alert)

You're active users who have flair for either the blue-striped flag for gay men or the pink-striped flag for lesbians, and there's discussion for it to be removed throughout this entire post. We'd appreciate hearing your thoughts too, if you don't mind, before any decision is made :)

[–]Bright_paintingLoad, lesbian biologist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I'm just gonna speak about the pink flag, since I'm using it. I do understand all of your arguments for removing it and wouldn't be bothered if it disappered. My reason for using it might be a little petty, but I remember finding it when I was deep in my TRA-fase, began to use it for myself and ending up being scrutinized by my (now former) friends for using a "trans-exclusionary" flag. I use it here because I can. Using that flag is a little rebelion against those people, even though they'll never see it.

[–]grassfed 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

😮

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

u/nbailey73
u/SilverWolf
u/GenderSpecial

(commenting this multiple times - mentioning too many users at once makes it so no one gets the alert)

You're active users who have flair for either the blue-striped flag for gay men or the pink-striped flag for lesbians, and there's discussion for it to be removed throughout this entire post. We'd appreciate hearing your thoughts too, if you don't mind, before any decision is made :)

[–]SilverWolf 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't really mind which blue flag gets used, or if it gets deleted. I've always heard that the blue flag includes gender identity, I just don't care, so either one wouldn't make a difference to me. I only use the flag so there's never any confusion on whether I'm a gay man, a lesbian, or bisexual. The two male symbols can do this as well, but I prefer the flag look. Also I think an ally flair would be fine, it just gives them an option of making themselves more easily identifiable as allies. Nothing wrong with that.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

u/St_Origen
u/julesburm1891
u/Elvira95

(commenting this multiple times - mentioning too many users at once makes it so no one gets the alert)

You're active users who have flair for either the blue-striped flag for gay men or the pink-striped flag for lesbians, and there's discussion for it to be removed throughout this entire post. We'd appreciate hearing your thoughts too, if you don't mind, before any decision is made :)