you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Eh.. you really can't. Any sort of group you are apart of is going to have personal undesirables you don't want to be affiliated with. True of everything from something as serious as political movements down to hobby groups.

Hmm, that's a good observation. It is a kind of universal concern with any group. I think it's still one worth trying to mitigate.

We have issues with trans right activists and rad fems are obviously going to have issues with trans right activists so no matter how much you want to say I don't want to be associated with them people who don't like you will. You might as well not care.

But it's not just a question of association, it's a question of representation: who's going to be speaking for our community at a local, national, international level? In the same way that I wouldn't want a homophobic "ex-gay" person representing me, I wouldn't want a homophobic "political lesbian" representing me, either.

I mean rad fems even have their own varied beliefs or don't want to claim women who believe in "political lesbianism" too so yeah this applies to everything.

Yeah, that's why I am trying to specify that "political lesbians" are the problem. I get that not all radfems believe in it.

They aren't going to influence how the public perceives gay, bi or lesbian people.

They already have, though-- at least for lesbians. People talk about "lesbian history" and like 9/10 times when I go look up what they're referencing, they're actually referring to political lesbians, not actual lesbians. It is a well-known phenomenon: people don't take female same-sex attraction seriously. Many people don't even believe that female homosexuality exists. So in that way, these "political lesbians" already have, in fact, shifted the public opinion of female homosexuality for the worse (by spreading misinformation about it, and claiming that it's a "lifestyle").

TRAs though do have resources/support to impact how people see us as they are public, well backed and are now the voices for mainstream LGBT groups.

Yup, not disagreeing with you there.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I mean again what would you have us do beyond say I don't agree with you? Representation sure is an issue in mainstream organizations but you have to have a large amount of people taking over those groups internally that share your views. Ultimately that is TRAs who have power not us nor any rad fems.

Again the very nature of the people who actually embrace political lesbianism are going to be incredibly politically niche. For a lot of women they have at least one male figure they do like or empathize with. Separatism feminism which is where political lesbianism tends to be connected to is hard to attract for that reason alone. Other forms of tribalism is easier to encourage as you can isolate pretty easily entirely from different races, political groups whatever. Most people will have been raised at one point with someone of a different sex and the vast majority of people their relationships with the opposite sex aren't going to be largely negative. I mean there probably are some women who still choose that despite not having negative relationships with men for whatever reason but again it's going to always be a very niche idea because why separate yourself entirely from some people you have liked in your life?

Younger generations pretty much perceive them to be old wine aunts they hardly have that much influence beyond their demographic. That is different from TRAs who do have the ear of the youth and actual money/political influence. You will get some people that again use political lesbians as props as again to invalidate homosexuality but again the people who are going to resort to that argument have a set agenda from the very get go. They are just looking for validating examples not true knowledge. No point to be concerned about it.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean again what would you have us do beyond say I don't agree with you?

That's fine, I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I appreciate hearing differing perspectives, they often change my thinking even if I still disagree on the main points.

I mean there probably are some women who still choose that despite not having negative relationships with men for whatever reason but again it's going to always be a very niche idea because why separate yourself entirely from some people you have liked in your life?

While "political lesbians" are a niche demographic, the idea that "female homosexuality doesn't exist" is not niche, it's quite mainstream; and they are spreading that idea and reinforcing its popularity.

Younger generations pretty much perceive them to be old wine aunts they hardly have that much influence beyond their demographic.

True, and at the same time-- wine aunts aren't the only people who believe that female homosexuality... or homosexuality at all... doesn't exist.

Sounds like we will have to agree to disagree.