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[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Way late to responding to this, sorry!!

Oh, no worries-- whenever I write comments, I always view a response as optional (if appreciated), you know? Plus I often have a really hard time writing responses myself (timely or otherwise). So, what with living in a glass house and all myself, I'm certainly not inclined to throw stones here! :)

Really. Now THAT is fascinating. I am too young to know much about a movement like that, haha. But I would love to hear more! Probably a convo for DMs though. Didn't mean to start a fight in the Sunday Social thread, whoops lol.

I'm glad that it piqued your interest! Yeah, such a strange connection, huh? But I guess that this fuckin' transpocalypse is too big, and too batshit, to have sprung full-blown from the head of Zeus, as it were. This has been a long time coming, I think.

But you're right: since these dog-related subjects can be surprisingly-volatile-- as I, of all people, should know by now!-- they're probably not best suited to public areas of this sub. (My apologies to the mods!) If you'd like to continue the conversation, please feel free to DM me.

Dude, that's completely fair. I sure as hell have collected some psychic scars from the trans homophobia.

I'm so sorry to hear that! But of course not surprised. Can't be many lesbians who come through this nightmare unscathed :(

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Oh, no worries-- whenever I write comments, I always view a response as optional (if appreciated), you know? Plus I often have a really hard time writing responses myself (timely or otherwise). So, what with living in a glass house and all myself, I'm certainly not inclined to throw stones here! :)

I completely relate to all of that. Good to know :)

But I guess that this fuckin' transpocalypse is too big, and too batshit, to have sprung full-blown from the head of Zeus, as it were. This has been a long time coming, I think.

Yuppp. That's so true. I think a lot about that a lot; the harassment and silencing that LGB people are currently going through is probably playing out in a bunch of other contexts that we don't even know about. It's made me think a lot more carefully about the internet as a medium for communication, about free speech, and about various types of dogma. And about the nature of open-mindedness. A lot of people say they're openminded and genuinely believe that they are... but don't act like it at all. And then you can't even gently warn them about it, because they're so touchy about views that they deem threatening! It's a tough problem to deal with on an individual level... it's way harder on a societal level.

I'm so sorry to hear that! But of course not surprised. Can't be many lesbians who come through this nightmare unscathed :(

Thanks dude, much appreciated. Yeah, it's rough. I consider myself one of the luckier ones because I didn't medically transition. I have been thinking a lot more, recently, about how the TQ+ movement has affected bisexuals as well; I think it doesn't get talked about as much just because the conversion therapy rhetoric directed at homosexuals is so blatantly awful. Down to talk about that too if you ever are!

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’ve come to learn that when a lot of people say they’re open-minded, they mean they’re specifically attracted to things they see as alternative, subversive, and counter-culture. If they were really open-minded they would be interested in hearing and exploring diverse perspectives, even ones they’re unlikely to agree with. That was normal when I was in college a decade ago. I went to hear people like Ann Coulter speak on my college campus for Christ’s sake. Because I wanted to hear things straight from the source, and hear her say crazy things tbh. And also I wanted to see if she was as crazy as I had heard. Someone tried to loudly interrupt her speaking and everyone else got angry and said, “let her speak.” Not recommending that anyone listen to Ann Coulter specifically, but IMO being open-minded entails being able to accept that you cannot control what other people think and that there will always be someone somewhere saying something you don’t like and you just need to be able to deal. And the idea of going to an event like that for the purpose of trying to get her to not speak was not tolerated at that time. It was considered rude when that person could have just, um, not attended and got on with her life and let the others attendees hear what they came for.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve come to learn that when a lot of people say they’re open-minded, they mean they’re specifically attracted to things they see as alternative, subversive, and counter-culture.

I love how you put this. :) That's a lovely way to put it. I was thinking about this topic just the other day. I think this is a related idea: It seems to me that some people just seem to love authority. But their sources of authority may vary from individual to individual. One individual idolizes the Pope; another idolizes their favorite counter-culture figure. Is the second person really open-minded? Not likely. But they probably think they're open-minded!

That was normal when I was in college a decade ago.

It's so funny... I can't even say that to my peers without them telling me that's a fascist talking point. No joke, I literally got that response from some of my friends in college. And the few who did not automatically assume that were usually just apathetic. I wish I had been born a little earlier sometimes, lol. (But then, being born later has given me a somewhat unique perspective on this whole mess that we're in with the homophobic TQ movement.)

but IMO being open-minded entails being able to accept that you cannot control what other people think

Yes.. and I think it also entails not feeling threatened by views that disagree with yours; or at the very least, the ability to rein in one's threat response and deliberately engage in effortful thinking in spite of it.

And the idea of going to an event like that for the purpose of trying to get her to not speak was not tolerated at that time.

And now it is popular among my generation. Seriously, I honestly despair at ever getting through to most people my age... I hate to sound so negative about it, but I have had much more luck tentatively poking around to see if there is any openness to dialogue about the transgender movement with the millennials I'm friends with (who are early 30s to late 30s age range).

It was considered rude when that person could have just, um, not attended and got on with her life and let the others attendees hear what they came for.

Now it is considered rude to not intervene. I swear, the fact that social norms have changed this much in the span of a few short years is crazy...