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[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

I was talking to someone the other day about how AHS on Reddit has organized and encouraged harassment, brigading, and doxxing behaviors directed at users and forums that don't support gender identity ideology. They told me that they had heard of something similar happening with... pitbull dog legislation. What? They linked me to this post about it. I'm just surprised because so many of the tactics described in this post-- getting users banned from other subreddits just because they participate in one disliked subreddit, brigading, doxxing, making a whole private Discord server devoted to planning how to get a subreddit banned-- are the same tactics that extremist TRAs use.

Has anyone else here heard of this...? I'm inclined to guess that this isn't as big a conflict as the one surrounding transgender ideology, but then again, I'm new to this topic.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

My my, that was quite the rabbit hole to go tumbling down.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

This is an interesting find. Funny enough I was talking to a friend the other day who said he had recently changed his mind about pitbulls (from thinking they were misunderstood and that the real problem was bad owners to thinking the breed was inherently dangerous). I noted in that conversation that the breed attracts a type of owner that likes them for their threatening nature and also a type of owner that is attracted to them specifically because they think they're misunderstood and want to rehabilitate their public image. I am not at all surprised that the latter category includes a sizeable number of TRA queer ideologue type people who get off on the idea of subverting societal norms and telling people they need to re-educate themselves.

To be clear I'm not saying that all or most people who think pitbulls are misunderstood are like that. I have a cousin who owns pitbulls and he's a harmless, empathetic softie. I also know people who have had serious injuries from pitbulls. I haven't personally researched pitbulls but I know they have strong jaws that can do more damage than most dogs if applied to human flesh and I also know that purebred dogs were selectively bred to have certain personality, behavioral, and physical traits so it would not surprise me if certain breeds have certain problematic behavioral traits endemic to them.

[–]ShotTopic 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I was sympathetic to pitbulls until my dog was attacked and it was a nightmare trying to get it to release it's jaws from my dog's neck. Now I'm in the camp of many of them have bad owners, but also the breed was bred for fighting. I do know some nice ones but I don't trust the breed as a whole and will leave the dog park (or where ever I am with my dog) if I see one. I don't want them euthanized or anything but I don't think they should continue to be bred. Let the current ones live out their lives with responsible owners and move on.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm so sorry that happened to your dog. I hope your dog survived and is doing ok.

Now I'm in the camp of many of them have bad owners, but also the breed was bred for fighting.

Yeah that is where I land on this, too. Some people will deny one or the other of those points... I think they're both true.

[–]ShotTopic 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Pup is good! Wound was shallow because my girlfriend saw the pitbull coming and tried to pull our dog away at the last second. So the pitbull's teeth weren't able to get in too deep, it just wouldn't let go once it bit down. Vet did a 'clip and clean' and put her on antibiotics for a bit. I think it freaked us humans out way more than the dog.

Luckily there were some people at the dog park we had met before (our dogs befriended each other). They tried to help remove the pitbull and calmed us down after.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Really glad your dog turned out mostly okay!! That's thoughtful of the other people at the dog park, I'm glad they were there and helped you. God, I bet, I would've been so freaked out. Hope you all will never experience anything like that again!

[–]SerpensInferna 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

strong jaws that can do more damage than most dogs

I believe that is a myth that has been disproven. They have no more of a dangerous bite than other dog breeds - this is the first article that popped up on a search engine, for instance https://dogfoodsmart.com/pitbull-bite-force/.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Counterpoint: pitbulls are literally built to maximize biting damage, from their broad chest to the fact that they're bred to hang on until they are dead.

[–]SerpensInferna 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ahhh, I see now that the much touted "but they have a 1000 lb PSI!1!!!" garbage hysteria has been disproven, the argument moves on to the locking jaw until they are dead gambit. Which besides not being accurate - a dog hanging on to something it has bitten or attacked is not unique to the pit bull breed by any means.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, so most dog breeds have been selectively bred to fight to the death, huh? You DO understand that this is the purpose of dog-fighting, right? Attacking and continuing to do so until one or both animals die?

Then why don't those in this "sport" use golden retrievers, or poodles, or just whatever dog breed is handy? Apparently any will do, since "a dog hanging on to something it has bitten or attacked is not unique to the pit bull breed by any means". And yet, strangely, they just KEEP ON USING PIT BULLS. Why, it's almost as though... pit bulls excel at the VERY THING THEY'RE BRED FOR. Which must be a matter of (duh) genetics. Unless you're positing that they are masters of some super-secret canine martial art, or something.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

OK so to clarify the bite problem is not just bite force but that they latch on and maul, are likely to bite multiple parts of the body, pain does not deter them, they are more game to incite violence, when they bite they bite to kill, etc.

[–]SerpensInferna 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

None of these traits are unique to pit bulls or are really true - a dangerous dog will do all of the above, but pit bulls are not more likely to engage in this behavior than any other breed. If this truly concerns you, I encourage you to engage in well-rounded research and not give in to the hysteria around pit bull type dogs.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts (I'm way late to respond to this discussion that I started, lol; that's my bad). I agree with your points; I think a lot of people who have sympathy for pitbulls aren't at all just trying to posture and signal for social brownie points, they genuinely feel bad for the dogs and want to help them. But a certain vocal minority of pitbull advocates do seem pretty extreme...

Really fascinating-- and honestly I'm glad-- to see that multiple other people on this sub have noticed the parallel between the two topics! I never would have thought to make a connection between TRAs and pitbull owners had it not been pointed out to me.

I haven't personally researched pitbulls but I know they have strong jaws that can do more damage than most dogs if applied to human flesh

Yeah I'm honestly not sure that it's a physical advantage so much as a psychological one; they've been bred selecting for aggressive traits. It's pretty disturbing, but so many accounts of pitbull attacks seem to involve the dog wagging its tail and seeming excited in a positive, happy way, even while it's mauling someone. Whereas the majority of dogs would not have that sort of emotion while attacking someone, and typically would attack out of self-defense or if they felt threatened.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Has anyone else here heard of this...?

I have, actually! Well, not the specifically online version (I'm still very much a social-media neophyte), but that there's an organized movement of pitbulls-are-angels fanatics who treat all evidence to the contrary like pure evil is something I've known about for years now. (Predates my awareness of the whole trans thing, in fact.) And blown a gasket over on more than one occasion.

Come to think of it, I've noted the parallel between trans-advocacy and pitbull-advocacy before, in private convos. As well as the former's resemblance to yet another strain of dog-derangement, the 1990s "public-off-leashing-is-the-civil-rights-battle-of-our-time" craze. People went apeshit (or is that dogshit?) over the notion that they were entitled to let Fido run loose, and anyone who had a problem with it was clearly neurotic and/or WANTED PRECIOUS PUPPIES TO DIIIIE. Sound familiar? Can you tell that I still have psychic scars from innocently running into THAT particular buzzsaw? Honestly the trans-madness feels like a PTSD flashback! Only worse!

Anyway, if you or anyone else wanna discuss why pitbulls should be banned, and their ownership/breeding otherwise discouraged at the very least, just ask!

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Way late to responding to this, sorry!! I'm so glad that you and other people have noticed this similarity!

As well as the former's resemblance to yet another strain of dog-derangement, the 1990s "public-off-leashing-is-the-civil-rights-battle-of-our-time" craze. People went apeshit (or is that dogshit?) over the notion that they were entitled to let Fido run loose, and anyone who had a problem with it was clearly neurotic and/or WANTED PRECIOUS PUPPIES TO DIIIIE. Sound familiar?

Really. Now THAT is fascinating. I am too young to know much about a movement like that, haha. But I would love to hear more! Probably a convo for DMs though. Didn't mean to start a fight in the Sunday Social thread, whoops lol.

Can you tell that I still have psychic scars from innocently running into THAT particular buzzsaw? Honestly the trans-madness feels like a PTSD flashback! Only worse!

Dude, that's completely fair. I sure as hell have collected some psychic scars from the trans homophobia.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Way late to responding to this, sorry!!

Oh, no worries-- whenever I write comments, I always view a response as optional (if appreciated), you know? Plus I often have a really hard time writing responses myself (timely or otherwise). So, what with living in a glass house and all myself, I'm certainly not inclined to throw stones here! :)

Really. Now THAT is fascinating. I am too young to know much about a movement like that, haha. But I would love to hear more! Probably a convo for DMs though. Didn't mean to start a fight in the Sunday Social thread, whoops lol.

I'm glad that it piqued your interest! Yeah, such a strange connection, huh? But I guess that this fuckin' transpocalypse is too big, and too batshit, to have sprung full-blown from the head of Zeus, as it were. This has been a long time coming, I think.

But you're right: since these dog-related subjects can be surprisingly-volatile-- as I, of all people, should know by now!-- they're probably not best suited to public areas of this sub. (My apologies to the mods!) If you'd like to continue the conversation, please feel free to DM me.

Dude, that's completely fair. I sure as hell have collected some psychic scars from the trans homophobia.

I'm so sorry to hear that! But of course not surprised. Can't be many lesbians who come through this nightmare unscathed :(

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Oh, no worries-- whenever I write comments, I always view a response as optional (if appreciated), you know? Plus I often have a really hard time writing responses myself (timely or otherwise). So, what with living in a glass house and all myself, I'm certainly not inclined to throw stones here! :)

I completely relate to all of that. Good to know :)

But I guess that this fuckin' transpocalypse is too big, and too batshit, to have sprung full-blown from the head of Zeus, as it were. This has been a long time coming, I think.

Yuppp. That's so true. I think a lot about that a lot; the harassment and silencing that LGB people are currently going through is probably playing out in a bunch of other contexts that we don't even know about. It's made me think a lot more carefully about the internet as a medium for communication, about free speech, and about various types of dogma. And about the nature of open-mindedness. A lot of people say they're openminded and genuinely believe that they are... but don't act like it at all. And then you can't even gently warn them about it, because they're so touchy about views that they deem threatening! It's a tough problem to deal with on an individual level... it's way harder on a societal level.

I'm so sorry to hear that! But of course not surprised. Can't be many lesbians who come through this nightmare unscathed :(

Thanks dude, much appreciated. Yeah, it's rough. I consider myself one of the luckier ones because I didn't medically transition. I have been thinking a lot more, recently, about how the TQ+ movement has affected bisexuals as well; I think it doesn't get talked about as much just because the conversion therapy rhetoric directed at homosexuals is so blatantly awful. Down to talk about that too if you ever are!

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’ve come to learn that when a lot of people say they’re open-minded, they mean they’re specifically attracted to things they see as alternative, subversive, and counter-culture. If they were really open-minded they would be interested in hearing and exploring diverse perspectives, even ones they’re unlikely to agree with. That was normal when I was in college a decade ago. I went to hear people like Ann Coulter speak on my college campus for Christ’s sake. Because I wanted to hear things straight from the source, and hear her say crazy things tbh. And also I wanted to see if she was as crazy as I had heard. Someone tried to loudly interrupt her speaking and everyone else got angry and said, “let her speak.” Not recommending that anyone listen to Ann Coulter specifically, but IMO being open-minded entails being able to accept that you cannot control what other people think and that there will always be someone somewhere saying something you don’t like and you just need to be able to deal. And the idea of going to an event like that for the purpose of trying to get her to not speak was not tolerated at that time. It was considered rude when that person could have just, um, not attended and got on with her life and let the others attendees hear what they came for.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve come to learn that when a lot of people say they’re open-minded, they mean they’re specifically attracted to things they see as alternative, subversive, and counter-culture.

I love how you put this. :) That's a lovely way to put it. I was thinking about this topic just the other day. I think this is a related idea: It seems to me that some people just seem to love authority. But their sources of authority may vary from individual to individual. One individual idolizes the Pope; another idolizes their favorite counter-culture figure. Is the second person really open-minded? Not likely. But they probably think they're open-minded!

That was normal when I was in college a decade ago.

It's so funny... I can't even say that to my peers without them telling me that's a fascist talking point. No joke, I literally got that response from some of my friends in college. And the few who did not automatically assume that were usually just apathetic. I wish I had been born a little earlier sometimes, lol. (But then, being born later has given me a somewhat unique perspective on this whole mess that we're in with the homophobic TQ movement.)

but IMO being open-minded entails being able to accept that you cannot control what other people think

Yes.. and I think it also entails not feeling threatened by views that disagree with yours; or at the very least, the ability to rein in one's threat response and deliberately engage in effortful thinking in spite of it.

And the idea of going to an event like that for the purpose of trying to get her to not speak was not tolerated at that time.

And now it is popular among my generation. Seriously, I honestly despair at ever getting through to most people my age... I hate to sound so negative about it, but I have had much more luck tentatively poking around to see if there is any openness to dialogue about the transgender movement with the millennials I'm friends with (who are early 30s to late 30s age range).

It was considered rude when that person could have just, um, not attended and got on with her life and let the others attendees hear what they came for.

Now it is considered rude to not intervene. I swear, the fact that social norms have changed this much in the span of a few short years is crazy...

[–]SerpensInferna 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So...wait...are these people trying to get legislation passed to ban pit bulls or the other way around?

I do know this fight has been going on for quite some time with breed-specific legislation (I had a pittie mix and he was the most amazing dog in the world so at one time I had skin in the game), but I was not aware of similar tactics being used.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry, I'm way late to responding to you. The subreddit linked is trying to get legislation passed that will ban pitbulls by limiting breeding and enforcing spaying/neutering. People on the subreddit have been doxxed by a certain fanatic group of pro-pitbull enthusiasts. I was surprised by how similar their doxxing/harassment behavior seemed to that of TRAs.