all 46 comments

[–]JoeyJoeJoe 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I would not give any weight to statistics gathered from an echo chamber like reddit.

Starting a relationship based on language orthodoxy & lies about biology doesn't seem very smart either.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I can see it leading to problems.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I've only dated one person since the trans inquisition began, and I found out early on that she was also gc. I know it varies by demographics such as location and age, but for what it's worth, almost every person I end up talking to about trans stuff agrees that it's all bullshit.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's pretty cool to know lol. I don't meet many gays and lesbians in my personal life but I remember back in 2020, I had the opportunity to work with a coworker who happened to be a lesbian and I learned that she was annoyed that there were men on lesbian dating apps and when I told her I understood her, she just flat out said she doesn't believe men can be lesbians. It was amazing haha. I think you're right, I think that most know it's BS but aren't open about it because they don't want to deal with annoying TRA backlash.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I know it varies by demographics such as location and age, but for what it's worth, almost every person I end up talking to about trans stuff agrees that it's all bullshit.

You know, I've actually had a somewhat similar experience, surprisingly. I haven't had as much opportunity in the past few weeks to participate here, but I've brought up trans-related topics with a few people IRL, and they were surprisingly receptive to talking about it and had some doubts/questions about popular claims made by the trans movement. Granted, those were people I chose specifically because I think they're more open-minded than the average person, but it was still a pleasant surprise. They were all straight, though. I can only hope other L/B women are similarly questioning of trans ideology, otherwise my dating life is screwed, lol.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Last week I encountered the term "moral extortion". It is what it sounds like: a persuasion technique that relies on inducing guilt ("do the work") rather than using reasoned argument. I think it's a useful concept to understand woke tactics in general, and in particular how gender ideologues might target well-meaning but naive LGB people more readily than they do straights.

I think I remember you saying at some point that you're Gen Z, right? If so, yeah, it might be a tough time out there right now. Fortunately though queer theory is really stupid and doesn't stand up to scrutiny, so I really do believe most people will wake up.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think I remember you saying at some point that you're Gen Z, right? If so, yeah, it might be a tough time out there right now.

Whoops, responding to this way late, but yes! Yeah, it can be frustrating. I think most people my age I've talked to believe that sex is a spectrum, for example, if that gives you a sense of it...

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I haven't put much effort into dating for the last couple years and instead have been working on other goals (2nd degree, investing, etc.). That being said, due to my being openly critical about trans ideology two years ago while working at the bathhouse probably affected how I'm viewed locally. Combine that with my current living situation and you have all the reasons why I don't bother with dating right now.

[–]Destresse🇨🇵 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Same. Zero effort goes into dating lately

But anytime I've tried, I've only approached the clearly 'gender critical' women. No way I'm dealing with the stress of 'will she leave me or vilainize me if I say one wrong thing'

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Indeed, this probably wouldn't be a good type of person to date no matter what—it speaks to a high degree of immaturity and a lack of emotional intelligence.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You know, that's a good point. Silver linings, I guess; villainization and blanket-rejection of people who don't believe in trans ideology could be a way to weed out potential dating prospects who don't think critically much.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes. We've been so busy focusing on the main perpetrators (TRAs) that we don't often enough ask ourselves if we would really want to date someone as small-minded, credulous and obedient as so many of their enablers have proven themselves to be. If they weren't enablers for TRAs, they would likely be enablers for some other group for some other reason (now, imagine they have a toxic family which becomes your in-laws, for example). Whether that reason is gullibility or something else it's still not a good sign for trying to start an adult relationship.

In other words, people who open their mouths like baby birds and let the most forceful person in the vicinity spoon-feed them a distorted version of reality are people who can't really be trusted on an intimate level either. (I speak from direct experience on that point sadly. Some of the most dangerous people to try to get close to are the ones who are easily played.)

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If they weren't enablers for TRAs, they would likely be enablers for some other group for some other reason

Yupppp. Exactly. I've been struggling to put words to this.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally understandable.

[–]Bright_paintingLoad, lesbian biologist 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

On the second or third date with my girlfriend, we talked about how Harry Potter was a big part of both of our childhoods and then the topic of J.K Rowling came up. We both were a bit nervous around the topic, but it concluded with both of us understanding why she said and thought as she did and that she didn't deserve all the bullshit she got. We haven't actually talked about these issues since then, but we are both secure that the other one isn't all crazy. I was lucky and didn't just managed to find one of the few sane gen-Z girls, but also capture her heart!

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Aw that's so nice to hear. It's nice that you both could agree with JK Rowling especially because I know she's a hot topic of discussion that can cause division... But nice to hear you both came to an agreement.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Aw, that's awesome :) hope I'm as lucky as you. I'm assuming you're gen Z as well; it seems like so many people our age believe in transgender ideology..

[–]Bright_paintingLoad, lesbian biologist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We are both gen Z, yeah! Your sane Princess Charming is out there hiding somewhere, I'm sure of it!

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Omg, thanks dude :) :) all right, that's it, I've got to go find her!!

So nice to see another gen Z-er on this sub, by the way! I love talking to people of all ages here, but sometimes I wish there were more of us here so that older LGB people's impression of our gen isn't just gender identity insanity, lol.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I love spending time with women, even when we disagree on basic tenets of reality. So I do go on dates with lesbians and bi women who are TRAs, or just "well-meaning" normies. But, I would only ever seriously date/get in a relationship with another lesbian whose pro-reality and GC at the least, even if not a fellow rad fem.

It's nearly impossible to find other rad fem lesbians in the wild, we're a tiny percent of an already small group. Dating is fun, when it's not really a lot of expectations and I just meet the woman where she's at. When it starts getting serious and she's still team TWAW and starts saying "some lesbians can have/like dick.", that's when I'm out. It's just disrespectful to me, as a lesbian, and to us/our wlw relationship!

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think that's an interesting way to go about it. I don't think the trans stuff would pop up too much unless a big situation happens like what happened with Wii Spa or Johnathan Yaniv and so on but yeah, I can understand why you'd have to part when things get serious and they are saying contradictory things about our sexuality ("Lesbians can like dick" / "Gay men can like vaginas" lol)

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I love spending time with women, even when we disagree on basic tenets of reality. So I do go on dates with lesbians and bi women who are TRAs, or just "well-meaning" normies.

Really? That's so funny how different people respond to that situation, lol. It just makes me feel depressed when I hear other gay/bisexual women spout TRA talking points; it makes me feel more alone, and also frustrated to hear people call beliefs that are rooted in sexism and homophobia "progressive." Sounds like you've found a way to take something negative and turn it into a positive?

[–]hufflepuff-poet 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mostly just don't bring the topic up, but I answer honestly if they ask about my views on the LGBTQ community. There's so many other things I want to discuss and share with a woman, so I steer the conversation towards those areas. The gender debate has been really draining for me these last few months and I'm not dating seriously rn, so I like to keep my experiences fun and flirty. Trans is the least fun and flirty topic so it's easier to ignore once we get past the "are you L B T or Q?" stage, if the woman says she's TQ/pro-TWAW, I know to keep things surface level and physical with her.

[–]Mermer 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's not easy, I went on HER and everyone had pronounces, I immediately swiped left on anything that wasn't she/her. I started sexing with a girl that had lesbian as her orientation and then later on told me she doesn't care about gender as long as they love her. I'm not looking for a relationship so I'd still love to see her and hook up but it's hard to find another lesbian who isn't into the whole queer trans bullshit and looks like a normal person.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so sorry to hear that. i heard that "HER" has gotten hit the worst when it comes to gender lunacy. On Grindr we're slowly getting there as I'm seeing more trans-identified females on there now compared to 3 years ago. And I'm even seeing more straight men appear on there as well (they say they're only looking for "FTM"). The girl you're talking about sounds like she is bisexual but I hope maybe things can work out, maybe if she gets to know you more and you have a deep heart to heart, you can sway her to come to reality. But yeah I've seen what you mean that there are a lot of Lesbians who believe in the whole "Queer" and trans bullshit which can make dating a battlefield for your ordinary lesbian.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think HER markets itself towards the LGBTQ+ movement, though, right? Maybe it's more likely than other mainstream apps to have people who believe they need to announce their pronouns.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That being said I went into the drop the T Reddit and the majority of them were psychos calling for trans people's deaths. The others were just flat out calling trans people insane. There were a few that wanted to focus on just LGB issues solely without hate but the vast majority were just hateful.

When I brought up that what some people were posting went against the reddit groups own rules I got banned by a MOD.

Sure sure. They are also saying the saidit is more mild but that's silly because while on reddit everyone had to walk on eggshells to try and avoid triggering the Reddit admins.

[–]fuck_reddit 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The comments are not in agreement with the poll results. All the comments are saying they agree with DropTheT. That said, I had one bf in the past that didn’t like my (undeveloped) views on gender ideology.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Right that one got me a bit. The poll results had a huge chunk saying they wouldn't date GC/"DropTheT" gay men but the comments didn't reflect that. I think the ones who said they wouldn't didn't want to explain why. And oh wow.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Probably some brigading going on? I think r/AgainstHateSubreddits has been targeting AGB for a while now. Because being gay must mean you're hateful... right.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah you might be right. Like how back when the gender critical sub got hounded by trans-identified men before it closed down.

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've been in a long term relationship with a person who didn't understand my viewpoint (separating same-sex from TQ+), same with my family members. But explaining why I feel this way, and giving them time, usually gets them to come around to understanding. Most people (in my country at least) only blindly promote TQ+ by default because "it's the progressive thing to do".

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah I see. Well it's nice that they did come around with time to understand where you were coming from.

[–]Criticallacitirc 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I keep my views pretty crypto, I live in one of the epicenters of this BS. However I've found I'm pretty good at planting the seed with people about the problems with gender ideology. You just need to start to unravel the thread a bit, it eventually falls apart on its own. Most gays are actually GC once you peal the veneer away a bit. Anyone who is deep into activism is mentally unwell & I avoid them, so it's not really an issue.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right I think with some light nudging to some of the deep dark truths of the ideology can help plant the seed to at least get people to think more about it. They'll just have to try to wrestle with and overcome the cognitive dissonance that will definitely come into play when they start questioning the ideology.

Are there any go-to examples that you use to try planting?

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I've mostly avoided dating because so many of the LGB people I've met seem to believe in transgender ideology, and speak in a hostile way about people who don't. It's depressing and demoralizing. I hate to sound so negative, but it disturbs me to see so many people from my own dating pool spout homophobic claims without a second thought. In real life, I've witnessed people get bullied, have character-attacking rumors spread about them and even undergo social shunning just because they are skeptical of the idea that a man (biological male) can reasonably be called a woman (biological female). So I'm well aware that there are real consequences for speaking up in support of LGB rights, and honestly, I'm not as open about my pro-LGB views as I'd like to be. That's not to even mention the risks of doxxing, online harassment/threats and potentially losing your job. I would really like to keep my job... currently, I'm prioritizing that over having a dating life.

To be fair, I live in a very politically-left area. So I do recognize that it's probably not nearly this bad everywhere. I also would guess that there are other LGB people like me who just aren't speaking up right now because they're scared of the risks of questioning transgender ideology. And I'm also in my early 20s... I have a desperate hope that many people my age are just acting like idiots right now, and will hopefully grow more mature given more time.

edit: Also, thanks for making a post about this, I appreciate being able to hear other LGB people's experiences with and thoughts about this topic. It's something that's been bothering me the last few months; I've been wondering if I ought to try to change the way I think about this topic.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I totally understand where you're coming form. I'm a feminine presenting gay man so my dating pool has been pretty empty since in the man-loving-man dating scene, femininity isn't really seen as particularly attractive so yeah, I've been dealing with navigating the gay dating scene with that general rule of attraction on gay men so I haven't met many gay men in personal for dating and whatnot. But on the gay forums, I do see what you mean with many gay men spouting homophobic claims just like you mentioned. It's like an episode of Black Mirror or the Twilight Zone lol.

And don't feel too bad about not being as open as you'd like to be with your views. You have to put yourself first and since you live in the eye of the storm via a heavily politically left area that no dobut has a lot of "w0kE" people there and you want to keep your job, it's totally understandable why you keep them to yourself for the time being. I'm more or less the same with my own views where I try not to talk about it at work. I only did once and it was with a Lesbian coworker who actually opened up and confided to me how annoyed she was seeing many men on the dating app "HER" that she used because she would be getting hit on them so much which trampolined into us talking about how we didn't believe in Trans ideology (It was pretty cathartic, I won't lie haha). But yeah for now, just focus on you and when you're in a better situation or the trans bubble bursts and more people peak, it can be a better time to air out what you really think.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks man, I appreciate it. Yeah talking about it to other people is like a huge breath of fresh air, god. I'm glad you found someone you could talk to about it at least once!

But yeah for now, just focus on you and when you're in a better situation or the trans bubble bursts and more people peak, it can be a better time to air out what you really think.

You're probably right, that's probably the best way to go about it. It's just so hard, not having anyone to really trust on this topic. I'm hoping to try to test the waters with another friend soon though, so fingers crossed. Best of luck with your dating endeavors, rooting for you dude.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Haha hopefully it goes well, sometimes people can surprise us when it comes to this stuff and right back at you :)

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Keep in mind that askgaybros is constantly monotered by the TRA so any poll regarding the T i would suggest to ignore it.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

My girlfriend is a bit of a TRA and has a non-binary friend, but the topic doesn't come up enough for it to be an issue, especially since we get along about pretty much everything else. That being said, I've never told her I'm GC. If I have any GC things I want to talk about, I do so with my mother, who agrees with me wholeheartedly.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

but the topic doesn't come up enough for it to be an issue

I can see why it would be easier to deal with if the topic doesn't come up. I'm guessing you use your "non-binary" friend's preferred pronouns as well?

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's her friend, not mine, so yes, I do.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right

[–]TarshishJupiterpolitically homeless 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I keep having nightmares that I start dating a woman, and then she GOES OFF on me when I mention anything relating to trans stuff. But in real life, I'm not dating right now because I'm in college and don't have the time.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I totally understand that fear, I'm the same way but hopefully we won't ever have to experience that lol.But yeah for now, probably best to just focus on your studies.