Gay MenOr, crazy idea here, you could not chase the one subset of men who aren’t into women and play the victim about it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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[–]julesburm1891[S] 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

And if you go into this date knowingly withholding material facts and simultaneously wanting to be perceived as the type of human being that by definition has a particular type of equipment…

100% this.

Story time. I’m currently taking a class at my synagogue for people who are officially looking to convert. It’s mostly people who’ve been practicing Judaism and want to take the next step. But there are some people who’s fiancée/spouse is Jewish and they want to learn more to have a more conducive interfaith marriage. And then there’s a lady we’ll call Diane. Diane is a devout Christian who's married to a Christian. Her great-grandfather (the father of her father’s father) was Jewish and converted to Christianity when he came to America. None of Diane’s other family members are Jewish. However, Diane wants to be recognized as Jewish. Despite having zero intention of practicing the religion and absolutely no matrilineal descent, she desperately wants to be recognized as a member of the group. (I have spent more time than is healthy trying to figure out why she so badly wants to be a member of a hated minority if she doesn’t actually want to be Jewish, but whatever.) Literally every class period, Diane gets upset because everyone (including the rabbi) reminds her that she isn’t Jewish and she should stop trying to sideline class discussion.

“Gay” trans people have Diane energy times a hundred. They weren’t born homosexual. They have zero interest in having a same-sex relationship. They just want to change how they define themselves and have the entire world affirm it without question. There’s no regard for how actual group members might feel about it. There’s no concern about how such behavior might impact outsiders’ opinions of the group. What’s more, instead of trying to identify into a religion (with subjectivity), they want everyone to deny biologic, material reality. And, if that’s how you want to live, you better get ready for a never-ending line of disappointment.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They just want to change how they define themselves and have the entire world affirm it without question.

And ultimately the real problem is that they want to change how we define ourselves so that they can feel "included" and that all the material, consequential differences between us are erased and our own needs deriving from those material, differences get ignored to maintain the fragile illusion of sameness.

Literally every class period, Diane gets upset because everyone (including the rabbi) reminds her that she isn’t Jewish and she should stop trying to sideline class discussion.

I'm curious. What kinds of things is Diane doing to sideline discussion and in what way is she going about seeking to be affirmed as Jewish? How does that manifest in her behavior?

It does have similar energy and I would love to see studies on things like oppression fetishism and identity tourism that seem increasingly prevalent and relevant in western society right now. There are some obvious connections to narcissism, lack of stable identity, escapism, and avoidance. We all know 10 years ago girls weren't clamoring to be perceived as gay men (much less in 1989). This isn't happening outside places where there is at least the appearance of gay acceptance. Likewise, I doubt Diane would have felt a desire to be affirmed as Jewish in Europe in 1942. The way these FTMs talk about going on PrEP as a rite of passage skeeves me tf out. What is going on man? How has society's credulity been strained this far?

I'm at least relieved that the rabbi and class members are comfortable asserting boundaries. I can easily see someone applying woke logic and saying, "What's the harm? If Diane wants to be called Jewish, just be kind and call her Jewish, or at least don't tell her she's not." Is one non-Jewish person's quest to be seen as Jewish going to negatively impact anyone's lives in a material way? Probably not beyond being a local nuisance. But if there were a critical mass of Dianes trying to change the rules for everyone, you then get an existential crisis because then you have people with no skin in the game who are now licensed to talk on behalf of a group they are not actually part of and they have every motivation to obscure and devalue the needs of the actual group. Which is where LGB is now with the rest of the alphabet soup.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The deaths from HIV in the 1980s were a genocide, a deliberate neglect of a major health crisis - so referring to PrEP as a rite of passage just for their sense of validating a phony identity is just disrespectful and sociopathic.

    The fetish also shows how they view gay men monolithically. I don't take PrEP because of a family history of kidney and liver issues, but also because I don't believe it's my responsibility to go on medication for someone else when condoms are readily available. They view us as NPCs and can't fathom that we have an inner world that motivates our actions and reactions.