all 26 comments

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A lot of what is considered traditional femininity is all about attracting men. So when you're unconcerned with attracting men you are going to be less feminine than women who are because one of the driving factors of femininity just isn't there. Femininity isn't innate, it's socialization.

Military and sports aren't natural, neither are fashion or interior design. You can't say someone has a particular sex of brain based on things they like that are completely unnatural and unrelated to sex.

"There's no obvious reason why sexual orientation should be associated with how masculine or feminine one is, but it is in our species. And it probably has to do with the causes of sexual orientation and early effects of hormones on the brain," Bailey said.

Because masculinity and femininity are very much tied to attracting the opposite sex. That's the main driving factor for them. You remove that factor and people are just going to do what they like. There'd probably be a lot more straight women into sports if straight men suddenly found that to be attractive and feminine and women had that drilled into their heads since they were babies.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You remove that factor and people are just going to do what they like. There'd probably be a lot more straight women into sports if

I'd say we've already pretty much arrived here. There might be a higher percentage of lesbians in sports than in the general population, but women's sports are overwhelmingly populated by heterosexuals. The idea that straight women don't like sports is very antiquated, and hasn't been true at any point in my lifetime.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

gay people asked my friend if I was really gay, as I seemed to not be a walking stereotype.

Debunked4u

[–]Hannibalboy93 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So much for breaking gender stereotypes, but the TRA's needed a real realize to be trans, so they use the brain scans excuse, the medical industry is politicized, once again its the liberal political party doing this

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Most claims you have linked are all about social culture and they are depending on social surroundings.

Brain studies are showing that male and female brains are almost identical, but they are neuroplastic.

At the same time gay men and straight women are having same sexual response in brain and reacting on hot men in same way. However, people who very love strawberries are reacting on pictures of them in same way as well. So it is not saying much, just that homosexual attraction is real and can be measured/tested. It is not saying that our brains are same as women brains, just that hetero women attracted to men and we are attracted to men as well.

[–]UWUness 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is not staying that our brains are same as women brains

Thank you for the clarification. I think "the brains of gay men are structured like the brains of women", as the articles put it, confuse people because articles and news tend to exaggerate information for attention. I have seen homophobes claim that "gay men are just women in men's bodies" and "lesbians are just men in women's bodies", linking to those articles in my post.

In this society, in which gay men are assumed to be like women and lesbians are assumed to be like men, but in different bodies, the articles do nothing but push for already existing, homophobic beliefs. They would claim, since gay men have "lady brains" and gay women have "manly brains", that they are to undergo surgery and call themselves "trans" for their bodies to match their brain structure.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

There is a part of the brain, the one controlling sex attraction, that we clearly shares with the opposite sex. With a lot of research I did because of curiosity about why I felt homosexual attraction since I was a kid, I think the most likely is more testosterone exposure in womb, or my dad passing me some epigenetic marks through his sperm increasing susceptibility to testosterone, which should have been erased, but escaped the erasure and made me my sexual part of brain masculinized. That also is further proven by my ring finger being longer like the one of a typical male, which is also linked to testosterone influence during embryonic development.

[–]UWUness 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

There may be "research", but as far as I know, all of this, such as hormone exposure, are hypothesis for the reason noone really knows why someone is openly gay. They come up with opinions and ideas. And find a correlation, over-simplifying things, eventhough things could be way more complex. Just as one can find correlation between eating breakfast and beating obesity, eventhough there are multiple other factors at play if someone wants to lose weight.

Your brain structure, the length of your ring finger, etc could have nothing to do with the attraction. They could be symptoms of other factors we don't know.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Actually, the biology research and clues are solid enough. Sure, if you want to it like a sure thing, that's not possible, because you should like being able to manipulate human development and then see how their sex orientation turns out.Also, no clearly such thing as gay gene. But science can do it with rats, and see the human equivalent in development or brain structure, and comes to conclusion. I'm pretty confident we are born homosexuals or bisexuals, and the sexual development due to sex hormone exposure in the womb is the reason.

[–]UWUness 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Humans are not rats ... That's the issue. Just because there is a correlation in rats, doesn't mean that's the case in humans.

Science could come to a different conclusion later on. But because we can not experiment on humans, or other animals (the rights of other animals should be recognized), we are left with you making up your own opinion.

And disagreement with your "we are born [insert sexuality]" shouldn't be swept under a rug.

Are you a mere slave to your genes and hormones, or are you more than a slave? This is a free will vs. determinism debate that has been ongoing, and your "pretty sure" isn't going to put an end to the debate. If humans have free will, it doesn't matter whether or not they are born [insert sexuality]. They could simply overcome and not act on their "straight" desires for instance.

But if humans are mere slaves to their genes, that's a whole other can of worms, because not even actions such as theft would be choices.

What I know is that the line drawn between what's a choice and what's not a choice is arbitrary. There's no reason to stop at "sexuality" not being a choice. Actions too would be determined by environment, hormones and genes, and would not be choices under a hard deterministic system, in which case to single out "sexuality" as though it's an exception would not make sense.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Rats are generally used to study biology and develop medicine, because of extremely compatible biology with us. They did the experiment exposing rats to more or less testosterone, which made a part of the brain more or less big, and guess what? They also find size similarity is some brain region related to male or female attraction. Homosexuality is clearly biological, and since we do have the typical sexuality of the opposite sex, its clearly we shared some development or share some brain structure process with them. This doesn't mean we are the opposite sex, we just got the sexuality that normally the opposite sex has. But don't get people who try to deny the fact we must to share some biological process/trait with the opposite sex, because our sexuality do works like theirs.

[–]UWUness 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Are you a mere slave to your genes and hormones, or are you more than a slave? This is a free will vs. determinism debate that has been ongoing, and your "pretty sure" isn't going to put an end to the debate. If humans have free will, it doesn't matter whether or not they are born [insert sexuality]. They could simply overcome and not act on their "straight" desires for instance.

But if humans are mere slaves to their genes, that's a whole other can of worms, because not even actions such as theft would be choices.

What I know is that the line drawn between what's a choice and what's not a choice is arbitrary. There's no reason to stop at "sexuality" not being a choice. Actions too would be determined by environment, hormones and genes, and would not be choices under a hard deterministic system, in which case to single out "sexuality" as though it's an exception would not make sense.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Dunno if you quoting or is your opinion. The action is a choice, the impulse, attraction isn't. I can choose to sleep with a woman, I cannot choose to have such a need/such biological attraction/desire. And I cannot choose to feel attraction toward me, even though I could very well choose to sleep with a man. How we act is based on free will, but what we feel in term of sexuality is physiological response and we cannot control it.

[–]UWUness 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I was quoting myself.

The action is a choice, the impulse, attraction isn't

The point was, you don't know that. Actions could be determined by environment, hormones and genes too, and you could be having an illusion of free will, an illusion of control, over your actions, in a hard deterministic system.

You can't solve this determinism vs. free will debate with your rat experiments.

[–]Elvira95Viva la figa 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Of course I know that, it's objective fact, attraction is chemical reaction outside of control, while action is more conscious. I can choose to date someone, but I cannot choose to get aroused by them or by a particular sex organ. And your reasoning is just irrational masturbating trying to deny basic factual reality.

[–]UWUness 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

You fail to understand what it means to have an illusion of free will. With your consciousness, you would have such illusion of control, when you'd be simply acting on what you were determined, influenced and taught to do in your culture and environment. Had you grown up in a different culture, you would have acted differently, and you would have believed you "choose" your actions eventhough that would not be the case. You would be like a doll, albeit a conscious one, that is aware of what it's doing, but can not do anything to change the course of its "fate". Not a perfect analogy, but imagine the audience watching an animation. They would be aware of what the characters do, but would not be able to change what the characters do.

That's if there is no free will. If there were free will, sexual desires could be changed and overcome.

Whether or not there is free will is up for debate. And you do not know the answer to the question. That's the reason I'm on neither side of the debate.

[–]fuck_reddit 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If I remember right, the articles don’t actually say that we have the opposite sex’s brain, more that certain structures, in average, are halfway between the two.

The claims though that this explains why gay men like fashion and interior design and lesbians like sports and the military is a bit more specious. From my own experience, I would say that is false.

But the biggest difference between male and female brains is brain volume, and obviously a male brain would not fit in a female cavity nor would a female-sized brain go un-concussed in a male-sized cavity… And that gives away the lie of the trans “wrong brain.” Even in the apparent research on gay people, we don’t (supposedly) have an exact match.