ColonizationThe unquenchable lesbian thirst for dick

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[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 34 insightful - 3 fun34 insightful - 2 fun35 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

I was ashamed for so long of being a "man" mainly attracted to lesbians. But like, not porn-lesbians. Actual, normal people in my life who were or later turned out to be lesbians. Also, I started noticing that I assumed people who were attracted to me were bi? And when they told me they were straight I was disappointed for some reason?

Presenting this horrifying little statement.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Where is the self-awareness? How can someone type that out, look at those words, and not think, "Maybe I actually do have some issues to take a look at and work through."?

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I was ashamed for so long

Keep that up, buddy, until you figure out why it's shameful.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

To be fair, he could just like GNC women who are disproportionately likely to be lesbian, and thus unavailable (or bisexual). I met a straight man once who had that problem--

Still doesn't change the fact that he's male and not lesbian, though.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Well, I'm tired, so YMMV, but let's dissect this a bit, because I don't think we need to spend fairness capital on this: 1. It's on r/actuallesbians, a.k.a. actual transbians. 2. Once some dude is on that sub saying "man" in quotes, and talking about wanting lesbians, when he IS a man, and lesbians don't want men, it's red flag city, because his next implied thought is obviously going to be "but now I can be a lesbian" even if he doesn't say it. (I'm not digging through 300+ comments to find the one collapsed thread quoted here to see what else was said around it, incidentally.)

And finally 3., he starts assuming, without any reality-based cause, that "people who attracted to me were bi"—assuming he means women, then what in the heck is he making that assumption for if he's mentally healthy? Only time people you're attracted to being straight matters as a disappointment is if they're the same sex as you. (Otherwise you only have the potential disappointment of it not being mutual, like we all do, which is hardly noteworthy.)

Otherwise this dude is saying he's disappointed from the position of imagining himself being female.

Why is he on that sub saying this shit, in other words, if he isn't thinking about becoming a transbian and harassing lesbians? He likely knows damned well what audience he's speaking to there—a bunch of shameless enablers. Of course they'll hugbox him if he comes out as formerly ashamed. I mean, I don't give a shit if he feels ashamed or not as long as he leaves people alone, but kind of the entire point of that sub is to discuss the ways in which one is not leaving lesbians alone. His tone is as if he just joined some lovely club where he can be a lesbian after all.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

because I don't think we need to spend fairness capital on this

It's funny, after I wrote that response I went on a walk and was thinking about past times I've given the benefit of the doubt when trying to assess someone's intentions, and how that's sometimes ended up really hurting me. It seems our thoughts went in similar directions. :)

Only time people you're attracted to being straight matters as a disappointment is if they're the same sex as you.

Ah. That's absolutely true. "And the women being bisexual might've hypothetically been attracted to me if they were seeing me/my soul as female" or some shit. You're totally right. Somehow I didn't connect this observation, to the possibility of him already suggesting that he might identify as a transwomen.

Wow. This really is a sneaky thing to watch. I'm actually laughing at how deceptive this whole thing is. Why the hell-- is this guy doing this? I mean, for validation, I guess, but if he already knows how the thing's going to go down, then why bother...? It's so ridiculous, lol.

Of course they'll hugbox him if he comes out as formerly ashamed. I mean, I don't give a shit if he feels ashamed or not as long as he leaves people alone

Makes sense. Sorry, I think I jumped on the word "shame" and didn't spend as much time actually processing the details of the situation as I might have. I find it hard sometimes to put myself in the mindset of someone who chooses to use such deceptive tactics, like this guy did. I spend a lot of time around very "woke-left" people, who like to make throwaway comments about how people who disagree with their beliefs should be "shamed," which I can't say I'm a fan of. I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Separate comment for this response, then the rest of your reply in another comment:

past times I've given the benefit of the doubt when trying to assess someone's intentions

Ah...maybe I can save you a couple of decades of time with this, because this is indeed a great way to get hurt.

First: Check out The Gift of Fear.

Second: I didn't trust my instincts when I was in my twenties the way I do now, for good reason—I simply didn't have the evidence of life experience to back up the safety of trusting them. How did I get that evidence? The. Hard. Way.

Here's the thing: When something feels "off" it probably is. But what we do, especially if we are open-minded / open-hearted and young, is second-guess ourselves, and try to reason with what our gut is telling us, etc. We basically gaslight ourselves into ignoring those gut-level messages. So then what happens is we continue trusting the person who is GIVING US those bad vibes, because we think it'd be unreasonable to listen to an instinct that we naturally see as not providing evidence when in fact the voice of that instinct IS the evidence, it's just operating at a level that is not fully conscious. So we discount it. If herd animals did this (and many members of a herd do, which is why they are dependent on the more sensitive ones to pick up on danger signals) they’d be wiped out quickly, because they’d be all, “Nah, that’s a lion and we’re their primary diet, but it’s cool, because this seems like a nice lion.” The difference with humans is that the predators (sometimes) don’t wear visible signs of their status. So we have to go with our internal readings in addition to or instead of what our eyes tell us.

Now consider this: The predators among us have typically been practicing their craft for their whole lives. So they are much better at navigating past your existing defenses, and exploiting your willingness to give them the benefit of the doubt, than you will yet be at saying “hold up, this doesn’t feel right to me.” They are, in fact, counting on this. They are counting on you to be nice, reasonable, rational, NORMAL. Your unlikeliness to assume malicious intent on their part is their tactical advantage.

There is nothing wrong with you for this, it’s just an experience and self-trust thing that you learn over time the hard way.

So one of the best nudges I learned to give myself, and this was only a few years ago, is this: If someone’s behavior is “off” enough to give me ANY bad feelings, it is NOT MY JOB to make up for their social-skills deficits by trusting them more than a truly healthy and safe person would require me to. It is not my problem if someone’s feelings are hurt if I and my instincts back away politely and leave the situation because it feels wrong (don’t tell them it feels wrong, of course–that’s none of their business and they’ll try to talk you out of listening to that feeling if you disclose your discomfort, or they might simply let their mask drop and switch to seeing you as a threat and retaliate). If they want things to go better for them socially then they need to do the work on themselves to present a viable self to the people they want to interact with and get things from. Meanwhile they get to experience scaring people off. Tough shit. YOU are not on the hook for catering to their feelings about their social failures so don’t give this a second thought.

In other words it is totally okay to just go “ick, feels off to me,” and quietly make some innocuous excuse for exiting the situation (or just ghost it if that makes sense). Try never to gamble with your instincts by saying “but what if I’m wrong and this would be a great friendship / relationship / whatever?”

Don’t worry about that part. There are seven+ billion people on this planet, and you don’t have to know every single one of them.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I am still absorbing everything you wrote; I want to write a better and longer reply than I have time for now. But I just want to say, THANK you. Thank you for taking the time to write this. As someone who was brainwashed, growing up-- and for me "growing up" wasn't that long ago, to be honest-- into ignoring every single instinctive feeling of "that's wrong" that I have, a lot of this is... new stuff for me to consider. At least in the way that you've presented it. I might push back on parts of your suggestions in my response but that's just me stress testing the ideas :) I really want to get this topic right. For myself. Because, as you've described, the consequences can be dire when a person gets it wrong. And unfortunately, I do know that much at least, from past experience... but I've been struggling, for the past year or two actually, with deciding how I ought to best navigate life in regards to this topic.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but that's just me stress testing the ideas :)

Please do. I let other people (predators) stress test them for me and that was worse. Kick the tires all you want!

but I've been struggling, for the past year or two actually, with deciding how I ought to best navigate life in regards to this topic.

You are not alone. One of the hardest things I have ever had to do is learn to harden myself at the right times while still being more open when it's safe. How can we tell when it's safe? That's the realm of informed instincts, judgement calls, playing the odds, and not worrying too much about not including everyone in your life who might want inclusion.

I can't tell you it's fun, because it's not, and the best answer I have is learn all the red flags you can, study people with known issues, listen to your gut, and tell yourself it's okay to step back whenever you need to. Because it really is okay. Never let your world revolve around what other people think of the ways you take care of yourself.

Take your time processing and responding, I'll be around.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow. This really is a sneaky thing to watch. I'm actually laughing at how deceptive this whole thing is. Why the hell-- is this guy doing this? I mean, for validation, I guess, but if he already knows how the thing's going to go down, then why bother...? It's so ridiculous, lol.

People love to talk to or about to themselves in front of other people, especially people who will, as you noted, validate them. Basically this dude is just coming onto a transbian sub and saying "yeah, me too." (Otherwise, he's just an idiot wandering around Reddit and not knowing who his audience is, but he's still basically saying he is coming around to the idea that he can be a woman, or that whole disclosure is indeed pointless.)

Makes sense. Sorry, I think I jumped on the word "shame" and didn't spend as much time actually processing the details of the situation as I might have. I find it hard sometimes to put myself in the mindset of someone who chooses to use such deceptive tactics, like this guy did. I spend a lot of time around very "woke-left" people, who like to make throwaway comments about how people who disagree with their beliefs should be "shamed," which I can't say I'm a fan of. I appreciate you taking the time to explain.

Yup, that's a popular term to throw around. Let us remember that some behaviors are in fact shameful, which I think we all know is true, if we’re thinking about it. Some of our more strident woke pals like to go so far as to suggest that shame should never be felt for any reason. I don't think they're thinking that through. Shame is a powerful behavior-correction mechanism, it just shouldn't be used to hurt people for reasons that would be obviously abusive, like arbitrary physical traits, orientation, etc. Of course it's not helpful or relevant there, but if we're talking about people looking for excuses to hurt / harass other people, ABSOLUTELY they should feel shame over those impulses; that’s the message from themselves, to themselves, that they need to rethink what they’re doing because of the negative consequences. Evidently parents and schools have now managed to train generations to think that they should never feel uncomfortable about someone else's response anything they do. Sure. That's how we raise generations of narcissists.

So this dude, who is fixated on lesbians finding him attractive even though he’s a dude? Well, if he’s having those thoughts privately and not acting them out in the world, then it’s between him and him, and hopefully a therapist. If he’s pulling up a chair to sit at the transbian table and confess his former levels of shame about those feelings, he’s considering walking down a very shameful path with their enabling and validation to bolster his belief that this would be an okay thing to do. He is looking for permission from a group that is similarly challenged psychologically. He is looking for an excuse. Or he can’t see the sharks in the water, should STFU, and go back to talking to his therapist about all of this. The logical conclusion is he wants the encouragement to cross a line that he does, in fact, know is a line he should not be crossing.

The only other possibility is that he can't articulate well that he feels genuine dysphoria, and that's still a conversation for his therapist, not the transbian wolves in sheep's clothing on r/actuallesbians. But narcissistic abusers can be VERY alluring when they are trying to recruit. That's the only way they get anywhere with people. If they showed off who they really are right away they'd scare most people off right away.

Dude is Bambi one way or another—with our without a working moral compass. I'm leaning toward without, because he doesn't talk, in this quote at least, about not feeling comfortable with his own body, just what he wants from a group of people he'll never be with.

I find it hard sometimes to put myself in the mindset of someone who chooses to use such deceptive tactics, like this guy did.

Yeah, many of us do. I’m only better at it now through very concerted effort after running into a bunch of these predators in a short amount of time. That told me I couldn’t play nice anymore and just assume people mean well even when they seem to. It sucks.

The alternative is worse. And, of course, people can be very smooth with their practiced social skills and seem safer than they are at times (or at first, when they’re trying harder because they can’t control you yet). That’s another job for one’s gut instincts to parse.

It’s an endless learning and updating process. I hope all of this helps give you permission to judge yourself less when you don’t feel right about such things. It’s not rude to back away because it doesn’t feel right. (But also, it is far better to be “rude” and unhurt than to be nice and getting abused.) You can ping me more about this any time, or if you ever want a second opinion about a specific situation, I’m happy to offer one privately.