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Discussion"Get the L out" undermines LGB solidarity.

submitted by 7874 from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]HelloMomo 26 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I really have no stake in the question of what links should be listed here. But, on the topic of forced teaming more broadly:

While I do believe in LGB solidarity, I will side-eye anyone who demands it. It feels very #NoLGBWithoutTheT, that whole abusive marriage, "you can't leave, you owe me, you're obligated to me!" thing.

And like with the #NoLGBWithoutTheT thing, it has this baked-in denial about the fact that these are different demographics, which might sometimes have different priorities and be at cross-purposes with each other. And if cross-purposes do arise, the subtext is "You're under an obligation to subordinate your needs in favor of serving mine."

I'm in favor of freely chosen solidarity. Not demanded solidarity.

[–]7874[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Where exactly is the conflict in priorities between gays and lesbians? Homosexuals suffer from homophobia. Unless you're trying to suggest that lesbians are somehow oppressed by gays?

[–]HelloMomo 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

...you read "A and B have different priorities" and somehow get "A is oppressing B" out of that? Weird, and also kinda yikes.

But regarding gay men and lesbians, though: No, I don't think homophobia is monolithic.

For most of history, gay men been more visible than lesbians. In Greece and Rome, it was visible and legitimized, and lesbianism has no piece of history that is equivalent to that. From medieval times up to the present, gay men have faced harsher homophobia than lesbians. There were laws to make sodomy illegal, which had no lesbian equivalent. If you look at this map you can see that's true of many countries even today, like Namibia and Zimbabwe.

But while male homosexuality was treated as serious (and thus a serious threat), lesbianism was much less so. Lesbianism has more often been treated as not real, not worth worrying about. This results is a level of protection, but also a lack of gravitas. The whole "straight girls kissing each other for attention" thing works because it's treated as frivolous, unserious, unimportant. Men kissing each other has very different connotations.

Regarding supposed health services instructing trans people on how to rape gay people: Planned Parenthood Toronto's "Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling" workshop was way back in 2012, while UK sauna "no one can see what's under my towel" CliniQ thing wasn't until years later. I think the gap is narrowing now, but I also think that it's pretty disingenuous to look back over the past 5 or so years and say that lesbians weren't the first ones on the cutting block. Because lesbianism is seen as less real than male homosexuality, or because women are socialized to put up with more abuse than men are, or simply because women are shorter than men and it's easier to bully and intimidate someone smaller than you.

Neither of these flavors of homophobia were the result of either gay men or lesbians oppressing each other. The oppressing comes from straight people, but that doesn't mean the oppressing is one-size-fits-all. Things play out differently, because (shocker) a person's sex is a major factor, and makes lots of aspects of a person's life different.

Also: Your critique seems to imply that Get the L Out was created to undermine LGB Alliance. Consider that Get the L Out began in 2018 (or at least, that was the first time they matched at pride, they maybe have formed even earlier, I'm not sure), while LGB Alliance wasn't formed until late 2019.

[–]7874[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I never insisted that's what you meant, I simply asked whether that was what you were implying because I see that sentiment a lot on other forums.

Homophobia does manifest differently depending on the sex of the person, yes, but the priority is still to end homophobia. Same priority. And lesbians are fortunate that the homophobia they face is less violent and hateful. But I guess ending that isn't a priority for some lesbians? They'd rather focus on only ending their flavor of homophobia which is less harsh?

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Well thanks for revealing yourself again.

Good lord, don't you have anything better to do with your life.